Armor class vs damage reduction for static Hit Points

[jaz0nj4ckal]

Several do parts of this. One does it all:
GURPS: Roll to hit (3d6 for skill or less), Roll Passive Defense (which is based upon the armor plus a defensive skill), and a fixed DR applied against rolled damage. PD is relatively rare for many genres; DR is common. I've seen PD for melee hit 15 or less (on 3d6) for expert shield guy using a magical shield....

I might be doing something wrong but I am not a big GURPS fan. I really don't like how you have (1) roll to hit, and if you hit the defender gets to roll for dodge. Why can't this just be incorporated into the hit roll? Why do I need two dice rolls to see if I hit, before I can start rolling for damage. I have a post over at GURPS's forum dealing with this, and some people gave me good ideas. However, I do like the idea of skills and the 3d6 dice roll.

Hmmm... maybe I should just retool GURPS and have a very limited Perks/advantage/disadvantage list. My style of plying is... why do I give benefits to someone who wants to play with one-eye. To me... that is what is all about roleplaying, not a +5 points for taking one-eye. Ok... will stop my rant with GURPS...(joke... all in good fun).

But you do give me the idea to retool GURPS.

 

[aramis erak]

I might be doing something wrong but I am not a big GURPS fan. I really don't like how you have (1) roll to hit, and if you hit the defender gets to roll for dodge. Why can't this just be incorporated into the hit roll? Why do I need two dice rolls to see if I hit, before I can start rolling for damage. I have a post over at GURPS's forum dealing with this, and some people gave me good ideas. However, I do like the idea of skills and the 3d6 dice roll.

Hmmm... maybe I should just retool GURPS and have a very limited Perks/advantage/disadvantage list. My style of plying is... why do I give benefits to someone who wants to play with one-eye. To me... that is what is all about roleplaying, not a +5 points for taking one-eye. Ok... will stop my rant with GURPS...(joke... all in good fun).

But you do give me the idea to retool GURPS.

GURPS combines the dodge or parry and the penetration roll.

the defense roll is a common enough structure in gaming.
GURPS, Palladium, WFRP, BTVS, TSR's SAGA system (MSHAG, DL5A), WoD, and more. Armor as a bonus to this (instead of a penalty to hit) is a GURPS thing.

It's realistic, but it's an additional roll. A sidebar suggesting using two simultaneous rolls... rolling 4d6 isn't much a problem. Dark for hit, light for bypassing armor.

 

[GMMichael]

I want something simple and smooth; however, I want to keep all damage at 1d6. This will help with creating and a uniform system, which will have some randomness but an average of 3.5.

However, I am finding it hard to (option 1) determine AC values, or go (option 2) with damage reduction, and determine what damage reduction values should be.

What I don't want to do... is say "this weapon gets a +1, and this weapon gets a -1.... etc) I want to build more of an environment that says... "The passage way is too small to use your spear or two-handed sword).

However, only expectation is two-handed weapons get to roll (2d6 keep the highest).

Noted. Personally, I like a two-tiered system, with AC and damage reduction. You get one for free, and one for effort. AC is what characters get when they dedicate time to it; there's no default AC, and characters can't use it without limit. DR, however, is a question of physics; how much damage does a weapon do once it has penetrated armor? Since armor is always there/worn, DR is always there.

Figuring out your AC (or DR?) values is just a math question: if a player rolls 2d6 to see if he causes damage, how many of those results do not cause damage? One fun thing I've seen lately is to make another die out of it, like a suit of armor reduces the 2d6 roll by 1d6.

 

[jaz0nj4ckal]

One fun thing I've seen lately is to make another die out of it, like a suit of armor reduces the 2d6 roll by 1d6.

That is an interesting concept, which I never thought of. What games have you been seeing this in? I mainly play D&D, AD&D 2E, Classic Traveller, MechWarrior 1E, Battletech 1E and try to like GURPS 3E, but been on a Advance Fighting Fantasy (AFF) kick recently. Due to AFF and D&D, I suspect why I am looking for a simple 2d6 dice mechanics so I can provide a Classic Traveller like feel to Fantasy. However, I a just about ready to give up on the idea, and just be happy with D&D.

Thank you.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I might be doing something wrong but I am not a big GURPS fan. I really don't like how you have (1) roll to hit, and if you hit the defender gets to roll for dodge. Why can't this just be incorporated into the hit roll?.

When you're using the roll-under method for basic resolution (or really, even if you're not), using two independent rolls gives you a better probability distribution.

With a GURPS-style system, your chance of hitting is equal to the chance of you making your attack skill check multiplied by the chance of your target failing their defense skill check. As you may have noticed, this means your chance to hit is always uncertain; there is no combination of bonuses or penalties to either side that will lead to a guaranteed outcome. Any change in your effective skill, or in the skill of the defender, is reflected through to the final probability.

When you use defense as a penalty to the attack roll, it becomes possible to fall outside of the range of the die, such that the roll and important factors become meaningless. Using D&D as an example, if you have +14 to hit and your enemy has AC 8, most of the factors become irrelevant; up to six points of bonuses and penalties are simply lost as irrelevant within the system math, because you're going to hit as long as you don't roll a 1 and that doesn't change if (for example) they were to cast Shield.

 

[GMMichael]

However, I a just about ready to give up on the idea, and just be happy with D&D.

We need an indie game in here stat! I'd offer mine up, but it's not quite ready.

I've seen an armor die system in a few different places, but I think the most recent one was on one of the smaller-press games featured on the ENWorld front page a few months ago. Sorry I can't remember the title, but it's a good idea; it gives defenders something to get excited about, especially if it's in a game in which defending is a passive thing (I still don't understand that concept).

 

[Ratskinner]

(I say this with the caveat that I have only rarely played Traveller, and so don't really know what the Traveller feel might be.)

Have you considered "advantage" dice to either attack or damage rolls? I mean roll three (or four or five) dice and keep the best/worst two does a lot. You could even keep "8+" as a success level: Check out: http://anydice.com/program/c967

I hope that helps.