Artificer Dancing Weapon and Proficiency Bonus?

[Flipguarder]

Yeah, it only makes sense. I would think it odd for an artificer to pull out a spiked chain and understand more about operating it with his arcane magic then he could while holding it.

And also since it doesn't specify that the weapon is proficient with itself, I feel its a pretty clear cut ruling.

 

[chaoslink]

Sounds right based on the proficiency bonus being stripped from the attack line between the playtest and the released power.

Thanks a lot!

 

[DracoSuave]

I play an artificer, and the past couple of games I've used the Dancing Weapon daily power. It has the "Weapon" keyword, but doesn't include the proficiency bonus in the attack line (it is just Int vs AC).

Show me a weapon power that DOES have the proficiency bonus in the attack line.

You can't.

Because the Weapon keyword does that part.

Any power with the weapon keyword applies the weapon's bonus to all attack rolls with that power. Period.

 

[chaoslink]

Show me a weapon power that DOES have the proficiency bonus in the attack line.

You can't.

Because the Weapon keyword does that part.

Any power with the weapon keyword applies the weapon's bonus to all attack rolls with that power. Period.

*shows you the playtest version of this power*

The playtest version of this power DID have the weapon proficiency bonus in the attack line, suggesting that you always got the bonus (not just when you are proficient with the weapon). Since that changed, Flip's approach seems to be the right one. I wish WotC would have commented specifically on the changes between playtest and release, though.

 

[DracoSuave]

*shows you the playtest version of this power*

The playtest version of this power DID have the weapon proficiency bonus in the attack line, suggesting that you always got the bonus (not just when you are proficient with the weapon). Since that changed, Flip's approach seems to be the right one. I wish WotC would have commented specifically on the changes between playtest and release, though.

You said, in your opening post, the power has the weapon keyword.

So I answered based on that.

As such, I looked at the power, because subsequant talking had suggested it had not the weapon keyword.

Now, I see that it STILL has the weapon keyword.

And as such, the attacks of the Dancing Weapon -are- attacks from a power with the weapon keyword, and as such receive the proficiency bonus. Said bonus is not a temporary bonus, so the Summoning keyword does not take that away.

Unless you want to make the point that weapons only -temporarily- have the proficiency bonus? To which I say 'Name one weapon where it's changed, ever.'

EDIT: Of course, not being proficient in the weapon denies you that bonus.

EDIT2: And I've seen the playtest. Things get changed because of reasons as the above... the power had Weapon AND Implement, but as Artificers became more weapon-based in one of their builds they scrapped the dual keyword thing... also because they didn't want confusion on whether they could use two implements for the same power.

 

[chaoslink]

My response to you was just to clarify, and give an example of a power that has the proficiency bonus in the attack line (and why). I'm satisfied with Flip's answer, and I don't see any point in arguing.

 

[DracoSuave]

My response to you was just to clarify, and give an example of a power that has the proficiency bonus in the attack line (and why). I'm satisfied with Flip's answer, and I don't see any point in arguing.

Playtests don't exactly count tho.

 

[Rolenet]

AFAIU it's a weird weapon attack, but it's a weapon attack still. Ordinary summons are no less weird: they're implement attacks delivered through something independent and remote.

It's like wielding the weapon remotely as a minor action *except* you can't benefit from temporary bonus.
Also remember you can only use a minor action to attack once per turn.

One weird thing is that you ought to still be "wielding" it, therefore you could use Augment Energy (the +2 atk from Arcane Empowerement) on it.

Therefore:
- If you have weapon focus, it works.
- You CAN affect it with the Magic Weapon ally bonus, because it's an ally... but the bonus doesn't count because it's temporary...
- If you've cast Icebound Sigil (or similar) on the weapon before, the bonus cease to affect your Dancing Weapon attacks. It seems reasonable to assume you cannot use the Immobilize effect, or that Corrosive Sigil's ongoing should be treated as a "temporary bonus", too - at least because of the potential abuse. If you pick it up again, it resumes.

I'm sure there are odder corner cases, still.