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Artificers: Sucky?

DracoSuave

First Post
Artficers are fantastic, due in large part to how good their at-wills are.

This.

Also their dailies, particularly the sigils, are nothing to sneeze at either. They are a tricky class because among all the great powers are a large some of lame ones that take an experienced player to avoid. And although it is quite easy to go all-implement or all-weapon, cutting your powers by half is severe so they suffer from the 'needs both a weapon and an implement and feats for both' paradign that plagues paladins and bards. But all and all, if built right, the class is extremely formidable.[/QUOTE]

Focused Expertise (staff)?
 

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WalterKovacs

First Post
The powers are all over the place. Some seem really cool, like Magic Weapon and many of the Dailies. But most of them seem distinctly 'Controller'-y, while these guys are a supposed to be Leaders, right?

A couple of points.

First of all, as an arcane class, there will be a certain ammount of controller "flair" to the class.

Secondly, controllers and leaders are similar in a number of ways. Where a leader would give his party a boost in speed, extra movement and the like ... the controller would force movement on enemies, slow them or immobilize them. A controller would boost an allies defenses or to hit rolls or damage, while a controller would apply penalties to an enemies defenses or to hit rolls or give them vulnerability to certain damage types, etc. In some cases, the two effects are basically the same (i.e. giving an ally a bonus to hit or an enemy a penalty to defenses) but have subtle differences (a single ally with better AC would discourage any enemy from attacking it, but a single foe with a penalty to hit may have no good options to attack for the turn).

General reflections on the artificer class itself would be appreciated, too, as well as suggestions for building a halfway decent one that won't doom his party by occupying the Leader slot.

The clarification people have given on the healing infusion will hopefully help you out.

A big issue is to decide which way to go with the artificer in terms of ranged, melee and implement attacks. With the feat for using crossbows as implements, and the feat which allows light or heavy blades as implements, it's possible to have your implement and one type of weapon slot filled by a single item (all three attack types are covered by a dagger, drow heavy blade, or any blade with the enchantment that makes them heavy thrown weapons). However, with increased versatility, you get lower damage output, not to mention limiting your options for enchantments (on the other hand, you need fewer expertise feats and you don't have to have multiple magical implement/weapons). If you do go with multiple weapons/implements, I suggest taking a disembodied hand as an arcane familar ... it allows you to draw and stow weapons as free actions ... allowing the artificer to more easily swap between his crossbow, his melee weapon, his implement, alchemical weapons, etc ... (and the idea of someone carrying an assortment of weapons, and having say a robot hand to help pass him stuff just screams artificer to me).

Many of the extra stuff that artificers do is quite nice. Their ritual casting class features is nice to have as it helps to stretch the party's cash. Similarly, the ability to enable reuse of daily magic item powers can come in quite handy for certain items as well. The temp hit points tied to daily magic item use is comparable to the healing from spending an action point near an inspiring warlord. One big thing to consider, especially as I would guess a dwarf artificer may be a bit lower on to-hit and damage ... perhaps alchemial items would be a good investment. As an artificer, with the class specific feat, they are able to make alchemical items at a higher level, and since those items are single use, it would still be affordable to make items above your level. Those items have fixed attack and damage, which scales with level. Thus, those above your level would give you attacks that are probably better than your standard ones. Similarly, the daily attack powers which enhance weapons or armor may be a good way to go as well.
 

DanmarLOK

First Post
I've got an artificer in my players and he's been quite happy with it and it's helped quite a bit. The versatile healing makes up for the less than optimal healing of the cleric. The buffs he drops all the time are great. I did make one change as he's the only healer for a group of 5 sometimes 6 and changed the stat the healing is based on to match his primary stat but does that extra 4 points of healing per fight make a huge difference? Not significantly, it just makes more 'sense' to me as a DM.

The one place that I think his particular build is short on is ranged attacks, he very much has to be in the line of battle to be of most use.
 

Obryn

Hero
From my experience, the changeling artificer in my game is one of the most powerful characters, hands down.

You really, really can't overlook their versatility. In his case, he uses a Superior Crossbow most of the time - so he has insane range with his powers, does respectable damage, and a +3 Proficiency modifier. (And with the feat that adds damage when you don't move, it's even better.) But unlike most Ranged characters, when the monsters come to him, he can just switch to a melee weapon and use exactly the same powers with exactly the same stats.

Magic Weapon is one of the best At-Wills in the game. (Its older brother, in the Battle Engineer PP, is even better.) He's routinely doing leadery stuff, and doing over 20 damage per round with his at-wills.

His class features are likewise pretty huge. Free temp HPs give the party a reason to use Daily magic items.

Plus, his dailies and utilities are nothing to sneeze at. (Check out Healing Figurine, for example.)

It's a very powerful class, and I think my favorite leader right now.

-O
 

Beckett

Explorer
I'm having a great time with my artificer. Grabbed bastard sword proficiency so I can mix it up on the front lines. I love magic weapon- +1 to hit for me, hit and damage bonuses for my allies. I can't help but feel like I'm getting away with something everytime I use it, it's so good.

The healing infusions are very nice. Healing seems a little light, but being able to effectively pool surges is very nice.

The class features are good when I remember them. Each day and each milestone, I hand out a +2 to hit card. Once we start getting more daily item powers, the free temps from there will be very handy.
 

JiffyPopTart

Bree-Yark
At 11th level the Spell Commander Paragon Path allows you to use bows or crossbows as an implement. It even lets you extend the range of implement powers by 5 when doing so.

I ponied up for the Greatbow feat so now I can Magic Weapon people 50 square away. Stick that on in your pipe and smoke it, magic missle!

So far I think the most awesome of powers is the Dancing Shield (lvl 10). Giving the defender a +4 to AC and Reflex for the whole encounter...and being able to shift it to someone else if they get bypassed...is amazingly useful.

DS
 

Eric888

First Post
Focused Expertise (staff)?

A quarterstaff is a horrible weapon. It is fine for wizards to count staffs as quarterstaffs for weapon focus and what-not, but if you actually have to use it as a weapon, everything falls apart. This is especially true when so many of their weapon powers have flexible ranges making a tratnyr or a hungry greatspear very attractive.
 

ourchair

First Post
And do note that *anyone* can spend surges to replenish the infusions. So your defenders are running low on surges, while your archer ranger is pristine? Well, the archer can now pitch in with a surge or two to replenish the infusions, essentially "healing" the denfeder.
This is great.

I haven't really had time to study the artificer as much as I want to, though from a first glance, I actually thought of it as one of the BETTER leader classes.

This means that in a party filled with two squishy artificers and a single striker, I can actually undo the problem I mentioned in this thread, simply by making use of the ridiculous number of healing surges my warden has to charge those infusions. Now if only they could get my surge value... :D
 

eamon

Explorer
Artficers are fantastic, due in large part to how good their at-wills are. Magic Weapon, especially with Battle Engineer, but even without, is very powerful. Giving large bonuses both to hit and damage to everyone next to you, with no restriction on times per turn, or who the attacks are made against, is pretty insane.

And to top it off... magic weapon itself always has a +1 to hit anyhow. It's really brilliant. The only bad thing? It overshadows the other at-wills (some of which really suck), which can make low-level gameplay rather boring (before encounter powers matter as much).
 

Sanzuo

First Post
Not to mention Self-Forged being one of the sweetest paragon paths.

excerpts_epg_0525.jpg
 

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