#attacks, AoO and Cleave

[geosapient]

My current character just entered the Enlightened Fist PrC. I had plans to go the route of the shape shifter for my unarmed strikes plus natural attaks. The DM said that you can't combine the two and I told him that there is an official ruling on it (there is an official ruling on it, right?).

His next comment was that he has seen an official ruling that you can never take more than 5 attacks on your turn in combat. I say that this is ludicrous. He has decided that we won't be able to take more than 5 attacks in our turn until it is written otherwise in a book. I asked then if that meant you could never get more than that with the use of feats and he said no (you should have seen the face on the person in our group that was playing a fighter and taking the TWF feats... priceless).

Attacks of Oppurtunity and Cleave. Can you use Cleave if you drop an opponent that draws an AoO? I think you should as Cleave really isn't more than using existing momentum on a weapon that was barely resisted. Doesn't Cleave kick in during any attack that drops an opponent?

At any rate neither really affects me since it would be a long time til I got that many attacks and I refuse to take Cleave in his adventures since he mainly uses large, hearty creatures against us (1 or 2 at a time) minimizing the benefits of the feat. The fighter on the other hand...

Oh, where can I find the official FAQ that everyone refers to? I can't seem to find a link sequence to it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Unarmed plus natural attacks: as written, as long as you're not flurrying, it works just fine.

If you're flurrying, there's dispute as to what "when using flurry of blows" means. Some of us feel that the full attack action you use is "when using flurry of blows"; others (including the Main FAQ) feel that "when using flurry of blows" only covers certain attacks in the full attack action, and that the natural weapon attacks occur during that action, but not "when using flurry of blows".

As written, Cleaving off an AoO works just fine.

There is certainly no official rule that prevents more than 5 attacks in a round. Show him the Carrion Crawler or Giant Squid in the Monster Manual, and point to "Full Attack", for a concrete example.

The Main FAQ is found here.

-Hyp.

 

[geosapient]

I doubt any amount of written evidence will sway him. Any time I try that he just claims rule 0.

I would consider combining flurry of blows with 'secondary' natural attacks but not a full set of natural attacks (ie. not allowing claw attacks [for creatures with only two limbs] but allowing a bite attack. Thri-Kreen I would also allow two extra claw attacks due to the extra limbs. I think allowing flurry and full allotment of natural attacks is a bit of overkill.

The Cleave part I was actually a bit shaky on and thought that I could be wrong.

Thanks for posting a link to the FAQ. It's been bothering me that I couldn't find it.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I doubt any amount of written evidence will sway him. Any time I try that he just claims rule 0.

Then give up on it. If he doesn't wish to allow more than five attacks per round then he doesn't have to and there is nothing you can do about it.
I had a DM once that wouldn't let me take both a move and a standard action in the same round. "Wasn't realistic." [heads off own rant] Nothing you can do in that situation. The DM knows what the written rules are and overrides them. Which is part of the DMs job.

The Cleave part I was actually a bit shaky on and thought that I could be wrong.

Just make sure you're following the rules inherit to the cleave feats. Once per round, specifically.

Good luck. DMs with bizare rulings are always tough to deal with.