Avenger / Ranger?

[Don Incognito]

An elven Two-Weapon Ranger with Disciple of Divine Wrath will never miss anything.

Ever.

Ever.

Broken? Y/N

 

[Mort_Q]

Broken? Y/N

No. You may want to look up ever in the dictionary.

 

[bganon]

You mean, will never miss anything for two rounds? Because that's how long the Oath lasts if you're multi'd into Avenger.

So, uh, no, not particularly broken.

Try an Elven Avenger multi'd into Rogue for Daggermaster, wielding a vicious dagger, and loaded up on those "bonus on crit" feats. Not quite broken (I think), but scary.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, it is pretty close to auto-hit for those 2 rounds, assuming you have ANY decent chance of hitting to start with, which in 4e is mostly a given. Of course the same applies to a bow ranger. Striker-to-striker multiclassing OFTEN gives you these kinds of things, and this is by far not the most spectacular example.

Now, what would be a LOT more vicious would be the Avenger MCPP into Ranger, using two weapons, and having Twin Strike as an at-will. They REALLY won't miss much at all! Of course it is only an at-will attack, but it could be pretty nasty.

 

[kevtar]

Word.

 

[Victim]

You mean, will never miss anything for two rounds? Because that's how long the Oath lasts if you're multi'd into Avenger.

So, uh, no, not particularly broken.

Try an Elven Avenger multi'd into Rogue for Daggermaster, wielding a vicious dagger, and loaded up on those "bonus on crit" feats. Not quite broken (I think), but scary.

Avengers have no weapon restrictions on their powers, so they're ordinarily best served by using a huge weapon. There's a big difference between an Avenger swinging an Executioner's Axe and one using daggers, and I don't think that the more frequent crits will really make up for the gap. Especially since an Exe Axe avenger might well be using a Jagged weapon for better crits anyway.

 

[Grabuto138]

No. You may want to look up ever in the dictionary.

Read past E and you will find "hyperbole" and "jerk."

 

[Piratecat]

Stop the bickering, sarcasm and insults. You guys know the rules.

 

[bganon]

Avengers have no weapon restrictions on their powers, so they're ordinarily best served by using a huge weapon. There's a big difference between an Avenger swinging an Executioner's Axe and one using daggers, and I don't think that the more frequent crits will really make up for the gap. Especially since an Exe Axe avenger might well be using a Jagged weapon for better crits anyway.

I thought about that, but I never did run the numbers. I might just do that. I forgot that "high crit" scales with tier, which is pretty scary on the execution axe.

But don't underestimate how many more crits Oath+Daggermaster can give you, especially when you can cherry-pick Rogue powers that give you two attacks against a single target. Two attacks, rolling twice each, means a 48% chance of at least one crit, and if you're an elf you can use your reroll to pump it to 62%. And considering that even at paragon you can pile on crit-trigger feats like Surprise Knockdown and Devastating Critical...

I'm not sure, but critting nearly every other round with a puny dagger might be better than critting 1/enc or so with the execution axe.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I thought about that, but I never did run the numbers. I might just do that. I forgot that "high crit" scales with tier, which is pretty scary on the execution axe.

But don't underestimate how many more crits Oath+Daggermaster can give you, especially when you can cherry-pick Rogue powers that give you two attacks against a single target. Two attacks, rolling twice each, means a 48% chance of at least one crit, and if you're an elf you can use your reroll to pump it to 62%. And considering that even at paragon you can pile on crit-trigger feats like Surprise Knockdown and Devastating Critical...

I'm not sure, but critting nearly every other round with a puny dagger might be better than critting 1/enc or so with the execution axe.

I think you could be correct about getting more crits outweighing doing higher damage per crit.

However I am curious exactly what rogue power it is that will give you multiple attacks... There is exactly ONE at-will power in the entire game that does that, Twin Strike. Pretty much the only way to get Twin Strike as an at-will if you are not a ranger is to take an MCPP in ranger. There are IIRC 2 other rogue powers that will give you a double attack, one is 7th level encounter power and the other is 13th. Anyway, my point is neither avengers nor rogues can really attack multiple times every round. You could get reasonably close with a rogue and you could actually get there with any class by MCPP to ranger at 11th level, but then you can't be a daggermaster. AFAIK daggermaster just cannot do it.