D&D 5E Balancing Full Casters with Non-Casters

[g4m3kn1ght]

My game group normally will not get past 10th level in a campaign, but now that we are staring down that reality my group is complaining that full casters (Wizard, Cleric, Druid) are going to warp the game. I can't say that I disagree, I have always felt like the D&D classes were playing in two different games; medieval combat movie and magic-users warp reality. Fourth edition was the only times things felt balanced, but that system had its own issues. Compounding this issue; our previous campaign we played using Adventures in Middle Earth, which has no casters, and had a blast.

My question is, how would you propose to either reign in full casters or buff up non-casters to make things feel more balanced in 5e?

 

[Mad_Jack]

Have you actually played a 5E game past 10th level to see just what the actual balance is between martial and casting characters at higher levels? It may be greatly different than your expectations if those expectations are based solely on previous editions.

 

[g4m3kn1ght]

I have not DM'd for it but a few of my current players have played through to 20, and they were the main complainants, in spite of playing casters in their respective campaigns. I am willing to try anything normally but I also want to make sure my players are not spending play time focused on possible balance issues. I think the main issue they had is fighters, rogues, and the half-casters feel like they have a narrow box to work in (hitting things and using skills) compared to the wizards that are polymorphing and blowing things up. It may also be a little edition fatigue.

Also, I was using my current predicament as conversation starter to see what ideas people had around the idea of goofing with the classes in 5e in general.

 

[nswanson27]

IMO, just look at the descriptions of some of the high level spells. It isn't a problem with the classes. Usually "overpowered" implies something to compare against to make that claim, but I feel like they've somehow succeeded at making something where that comparison isn't needed.

 

[Olrox17]

It might be useful to identify the problem here.
What's your group biggest problem with spellcasters? Do you feel like they get too much damage? Too much utility? Too many ways to control the opposition? 5 minutes workdays? All of the above?

 

[g4m3kn1ght]

Utility was the main complaint with control/damage being in far second. Their issue was that a well chosen spell list on a wizard, sorcerer, cleric, or druid could make most of the other classes feel unnecessary to the adventure often.

'Immersion' was a complaint too, but I suggested moving to a spelljammer/planescape-like or eberron style game world to combat that.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

If that’s the issue, I’d recommend keeping time constraints tight in your adventures. The dungeon submerges beneath the waves in 10 hours, the bad guy will flee the city in 4, the magic bomb explodes in 8 hours, and so on. They’ll think more about their spell resources when they can’t just take a short/long rest at will. A wizard can only cast Invisibility however many times they’re memorized it, but a rogue can roll for Stealth all day long.

Utility was the main complaint with control/damage being in far second. Their issue was that a well chosen spell list on a wizard, sorcerer, cleric, or druid could make most of the other classes feel unnecessary to the adventure often.

 

[g4m3kn1ght]

I really like that idea Ralif, and it works in my campaign pretty well. We meet infrequently so I tend to do more episodic adventures, I am guessing in most of their higher level campaigns they rarely had such time constraints.

 

[Gadget]

5e has done more than previous editions (barring 4e) to address this complaint. While it is true that high level spells open up options that just aren't available to other classes (teleport, planeshift, etc.), they've also been toned down quite a bit as well. The scarcity of high level slots, concentration, save every round for many spells, all combine to make high level spells not quite the dominating factor they once were. In fact, I've found many higher level spells to be somewhat lackluster for their level, barring a few optimal choices; especially most of the raw damage ones. This is somewhat offset by no longer having to prepare spells into specific slots anymore, giving spell slingers more flexibility.

Another thing to keep in mind is that if you are not having the standard 6-8 encounters a day to force spell casters to be more judicious with their higher level spell slots, the disparity between full casters and non-caster is much more evident. If caster can go nova frequently, then it will be much tougher on the martial characters.

 

[g4m3kn1ght]

More than one of my players has 4e nostlagia, it could feel a little more balanced between casters and martial characters, but I have problems going back to that edition for a variety of reasons. We got to level 20 in that 4e once, but it is hard to compare 4e power level wise with any other flavor of D&D.

One of the players mentioned they missed being able to be a lunkhead fighter or ranger with attacks as big and splashy as the wizard's. I mentioned the Battlemaster, but they said it just wasn't the same.

An idea I had was to add long casting times (1 min to 1 hour) to some of the beefier higher tier spells in addition to letting them count as rituals. It would not take care the number of spell slots as well, but the casters would still get to access their juice on a limited basis without causing my other players character envy.