D&D (2024) Barbarian (Playtest 7)

[UngeheuerLich]

It's pretty clear strength to those skills is an abstraction to allow Barbarians to be good at using those skills. Also, I guess I don't find it anymore jarring than Cha to attack (Looking at you Pact of the Blade).

I also don't like it as it makes the other abilities a bit more redundand. I had preferred advantage. Or con as the primal stat. But in the end, I could live with that.

 

[Horwath]

I also don't like it as it makes the other abilities a bit more redundand. I had preferred advantage. Or con as the primal stat. But in the end, I could live with that.

or barbarian damage bonus to those skills.
still respective abilities stay relevant, barbarian level stays relevant, it's just describing the power of "inner beast" in those aspects.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Primal skills thing is mostly a ribbon, because it is not that many skills.

2 are Dex which you likely already have at 14 so this doesn't make a big difference (and actually, uniform Dex 14 is even more likely with OneDnD, because Primal Dex skills discourage the rare Dextrous Barbs further, and Bear totem change kills the heavy armor Barb)

1 is Cha, but it's Intimidation, which should be allowed to work from Strength without class features, but now it's like they took a hard stance that no, you need a class feature to be allowed to do that, which has an effect beyond just Barb

2 are Wis, but one is Perception which is often reactive and something you'd rather want to have always on before you run into trouble, and the other is Survival which doesn't get much use

 

[Kinematics]

1 is Cha, but it's Intimidation, which should be allowed to work from Strength without class features, but now it's like they took a hard stance that no, you need a class feature to be allowed to do that, which has an effect beyond just Barb

I'd disagree on your assessment. They aren't saying you "need" a class feature for it. They're providing a class feature so that you don't "need" to beg your GM for permission to do that. It's still entirely possible to use Str for intimidation outside of this context, but that is, as it always has been, GM-dependent.

It's like the change to Wild Surge for sorcerer, to move the feature away from needing GM permission to make use of it.

 

[Stalker0]

1 is Cha, but it's Intimidation, which should be allowed to work from Strength without class features.

The problem is the mechanics of charisma versus the reality of character builds. Charisma is supposed to represent your personal force, your raw inner awesome. In theory a high str, low cha barb should be the tough guy that's meek and a bit quiet (its a common motiff and one you see in real life, the "gentle giants" that wouldn't hurt a fly even though it looks like they could bench press a truck).

So the super screaming barb that scares the beejesus out of you....he is "supposed" to have high cha.

now in reality, with point buy and the desire to optimize, players don't play that way. Cha is often the "dump stat" for barbs, right after Int. So you have the field of barbs that want to be scary....even though they technically dumped the stat that actually means your scary.

But honestly as long as point buy is king its always going to be that way, so we should just accept that people want to flex and be scary, even if their cha stats "says they should be meek", and so give intimidate to strength. If nothing else it would more differentiate it from persuasion, as both tend to overlap a lot in social situations.

 

[Kobold Stew]

The problem is the mechanics of charisma versus the reality of character builds. Charisma is supposed to represent your personal force, your raw inner awesome. In theory a high str, low cha barb should be the tough guy that's meek and a bit quiet (its a common motiff and one you see in real life, the "gentle giants" that wouldn't hurt a fly even though it looks like they could bench press a truck).

So the super screaming barb that scares the beejesus out of you....he is "supposed" to have high cha.

now in reality, with point buy and the desire to optimize, players don't play that way. Cha is often the "dump stat" for barbs, right after Int. So you have the field of barbs that want to be scary....even though they technically dumped the stat that actually means your scary.

But honestly as long as point buy is king its always going to be that way, so we should just accept that people want to flex and be scary, even if their cha stats "says they should be meek", and so give intimidate to strength. If nothing else it would more differentiate it from persuasion, as both tend to overlap a lot in social situations.

This is exactly right. People need to dump something with the standard array, and they are incentivized to do so with point buy, but then they want to handwave away the low-int or low-cha they chose for themselves.

Intimidation keyed off of strength makes narrative sense (even as a level-1 ability)and it's nice that it's now possible.

 

[Parmandur]

now in reality, with point buy and the desire to optimize, players don't play that way.

Qell, in reality most people don't optimize (per Crawford in the past, and per Beyond data that we have seen), and rolling for stats is the assumed norm (notice that nothing in the packets has touched that). Point buy and the array are variants.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

The problem isn't people dumping stats, it's that stats are connected to skills... So someone picking proficiency in Persuasion doesn't actually mean they're worth anything, you need to look at their Charisma to know where they stand.

It would be clearner if all the stats had clear gameplay functions that apply to everyone, and were completely divorced from skills. And we already have one stat that works like this - Constitution.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's pretty clear strength to those skills is an abstraction to allow Barbarians to be good at using those skills. Also, I guess I don't find it anymore jarring than Cha to attack (Looking at you Pact of the Blade).

^^This^^

I feel like too many people who say "what, does being stronger make me see better" miss the entire explanation that it is the mystical rage pulling on primal power that makes you see better. Strength is just representing that, because Strength and Con are the Barbarian abilities.

 

[Chaosmancer]

This is exactly right. People need to dump something with the standard array, and they are incentivized to do so with point buy, bud then they want to handwave away the low-int or low-cha they chose for themselves.

Intimidation keyed off of strength makes narrative sense (even as a level-1 ability)and it's nice that it's now possible.

I feel it is also in part because in most situations, there are only three possible dump stats. Yes, many people will dump anything, but in my experience..

No one really dumps Con, they make it a mid stat at worse
No one really dumps wisdom, they make it a mid stat
No one really dumps dex, they make it a mid stat

So, most characters end up dumping Str, Int, or Cha. Because instead of touching every part of the game, they are far more niche.

And so, with Barbarians needing Strength, you end up either dumping Int (very common and tropish) or Cha (less tropish, but breaks the trope of the stupid barbarian) and either way, you don't end up making it your second highest stat.