D&D (2024) Barbarian (Playtest 7)

[mamba]

The problem is the mechanics of charisma versus the reality of character builds. Charisma is supposed to represent your personal force, your raw inner awesome. In theory a high str, low cha barb should be the tough guy that's meek and a bit quiet (its a common motiff and one you see in real life, the "gentle giants" that wouldn't hurt a fly even though it looks like they could bench press a truck).

So the super screaming barb that scares the beejesus out of you....he is "supposed" to have high cha.

nah, if someone who is high STR is screaming at me, I will be more intimidated than if it is someone with high CHA

 

[mamba]

The problem is the mechanics of charisma versus the reality of character builds. Charisma is supposed to represent your personal force, your raw inner awesome. In theory a high str, low cha barb should be the tough guy that's meek and a bit quie

if the below is ok

It was not throwing stones, it was using a hand crossbow:

Action
1 hand crossbow attack
1 EB per bladesinger extra attack

Bonus action:
Hand Crossbow attack per XBE feat.

Playing a Hexblade you get Charisma on all of those attacks.

then anything goes, the Barbarian using STR to intimidate is much more logical to me

 

[Stalker0]

nah, if someone who is high STR is screaming at me, I will be more intimidated than if it is someone with high CHA

That's because again you aren't really associating cha to what its supposed to represent. The person with 8 cha when they scream at you, it comes out gurgled, more comical than anything. Or its just weak, they are a quiet person. They just don't "have it in them".

The person he can freeze your blood with just a cold stare, that's the person with high charisma.

 

[Stalker0]

Qell, in reality most people don't optimize (per Crawford in the past, and per Beyond data that we have seen), and rolling for stats is the assumed norm (notice that nothing in the packets has touched that). Point buy and the array are variants.

In that case, plop a 14 or 16 in your barb's charisma and then they will be scary!

 

[Stalker0]

The problem isn't people dumping stats, it's that stats are connected to skills... So someone picking proficiency in Persuasion doesn't actually mean they're worth anything, you need to look at their Charisma to know where they stand.

It would be clearner if all the stats had clear gameplay functions that apply to everyone, and were completely divorced from skills. And we already have one stat that works like this - Constitution.

If I were to "do it all again" dnd wise, I would remove charisma as a stat. or perhaps at least default it to a 12 for any given adventurer, and then they can raise it if they want to.

Because heroes by and large (the way we envison them in fantasy and movies and xyz media) are almost always "high charisma". They are larger then life, scary or smooth talking. When they act, people follow. When they speak, people listen. The 8 or especially 6 charisma adventurer doesn't really exist in the vast majority of our fantasy concepts....and if a player really wants to play a character who is that shy or socially awkward they always just can, you don't need a stat to roleplay negatives.

Instead, just make a special skill for socializing that isn't affected by a stat, or a feat, or xyz....aka something else. Obviously that would be a big retooling, and its never happening, but it would make my "if I rebuilt dnd in my own image" kind of thoughts.

 

[Bill Zebub]

In theory a high str, low cha barb should be the tough guy that's meek and a bit quiet

"Should be" is a bit strong there. I'd say "that's one of many possible ways to portray that." But way too narrow of an interpretation of low Cha. I know lots of loud, arrogant people with low Cha.

So the super screaming barb that scares the beejesus out of you....he is "supposed" to have high cha.

now in reality, with point buy and the desire to optimize, players don't play that way. Cha is often the "dump stat" for barbs, right after Int. So you have the field of barbs that want to be scary....even though they technically dumped the stat that actually means your scary.

Disagree with that. I could see the argument that Cha might let you be "scary" if you don't actually have anything to back up the threat. But if you somehow actually manifest something that people would find dangerous, whether it's big muscles and an axe, or laser beams coming out of your eyes) then you don't need high Cha to convince people that you are a threat.

 

[Bill Zebub]

All that said, I actually think that Cha should be a primary stat for Barbarians, to represent their primal force of personality. A la R.E.H.

My Barbarian homebrew for Shadowdark leans heavily into Cha (but doesn't have a 'Rage'). Whenever they fail an ability check they can choose to add their Cha modifier to the roll. But the gods don't appreciate such hubris, and their next meaningful roll is made with disadvantage. Still playtesting it, but it was my attempt to represent Conan's ability to basically be good at everything, followed by bad luck.

EDIT: Also, MAD classes make more sense in games where you strictly roll your stats. Only have one decent stat? Pick a SAD class. Have multiple great stats? Pick a MAD class. Think Paladin from 1e.

 

[mamba]

That's because again you aren't really associating cha to what its supposed to represent. The person with 8 cha when they scream at you, it comes out gurgled, more comical than anything. Or its just weak, they are a quiet person. They just don't "have it in them".

The person he can freeze your blood with just a cold stare, that's the person with high charisma.

yeah, I still disagree, this time apparently even with the consequences of about average CHA on your ability to speak… we are not talking about a value of 3 here after all.

Pretty sure a Hill Giant can intimidate townsfolk better than a first level Bard can…

 

[Valetudo]

I love it when my players barbarian with low int and cha acts as the face. He plays it perfect.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The problem is the mechanics of charisma versus the reality of character builds. Charisma is supposed to represent your personal force, your raw inner awesome. In theory a high str, low cha barb should be the tough guy that's meek and a bit quiet (its a common motiff and one you see in real life, the "gentle giants" that wouldn't hurt a fly even though it looks like they could bench press a truck).

So the super screaming barb that scares the beejesus out of you....he is "supposed" to have high cha.

now in reality, with point buy and the desire to optimize, players don't play that way. Cha is often the "dump stat" for barbs, right after Int. So you have the field of barbs that want to be scary....even though they technically dumped the stat that actually means your scary.

But honestly as long as point buy is king its always going to be that way, so we should just accept that people want to flex and be scary, even if their cha stats "says they should be meek", and so give intimidate to strength. If nothing else it would more differentiate it from persuasion, as both tend to overlap a lot in social situations.

At least, they are usually meek, and only if they are raging, they get some inner strength they would not have otherwise. Does not sound that bad.