Barbarian Playtest Experiences

[hvg3akaek]

No, unfortunately hit points are not a good substitute for AC. Constantly being knocked down, grabbed, dazed, slowed, immobilized, blinded, stunned, etc. because monsters have an easy time hitting you, is not fun at all.

In our game (at level 3-4), the barbarian hardly ever took real damage. The defence difference was not that great, and he kept his Temp HP up so that when attacks did get through, they generally only ate at them. I think there were a few encounters where he took no "real" damage at all!

 

[MadLordOfMilk]

So I finally got to play my Warforged Barbarian today (woo!), if only for one encounter. I loved it. I didn't take Recuperating Strike; stuck with Howling and Pressing.

Howling strike is really the only at-will that does more damage than a basic melee AND can be used while charging AND stops OAs from charging while raging. Awesome. I used it SEVERAL times.

Pressing strike was nice to easily get into flanking positions, though I can also see it being really nice for manipulating enemy positions. One thing to note is that you DO push 1 if you hit with it, so you can't basically guarantee flanking to your allies. If the creature is 2x2 it's a bit tougher to get into flanking with it (read: it's not basically guaranteed), but you're still very able to move around the outside of the creature.

Recuperating strike I didn't take so I can't comment on it. I've heard a lot of good things about it but I can't really see it being as great as people are making it out to be. It's not like temporary HP stacks. Plus, pressing/howling strike allow for more aggression.

Avalanche Strike: ow. Combined with a greataxe that's (3-36dmg)+str+con, with an executioner's axe that's (9-36dmg)+str+con. The bonus to attack rolls against me didn't seem to make much difference: I wasn't being targetted really anyway. Of course, I'm also the type to really not mind taking damage to hack more at my enemy (I provoked an OA just to get Avalanche Strike off).

Rages I didn't get a chance to utilize, unfortunately (again, only one encounter at the end of our session). I'll comment more on that later.

 

[chitzk0i]

One thing to note is that you DO push 1 if you hit with it, so you can't basically guarantee flanking to your allies.

Actually, check the rules for forced movement. You can always reduce the distance you push something, even to zero.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Um, the player does the point fiddle; not the Character.

Bob hasa job in real world as a lawyer but is Archemuk the Grumbled as a Barbarian in D&D.
Bob does the fiddling; Archemuk does the dismembering.

Yes, but there was an article(or post, I can't remember at the moment) talking about Power Attack and why one of the designers at WOTC(can't remember which) thought it was a bad idea. One of his main points was that the "feel" of the mechanic was off. The feat was supposed to represent rage and sacrificing accuracy for more damage. Meanwhile, the mechanic made players do a bunch of math to figure out the right number to power attack for at the table. So, the players who were supposed to be blindly attacking without thinking were instead thinking more than everyone else.

Although there is a lot of separation of character and player, in some ways the mechanics help bring you "into character". They help with the immersion. If this wasn't the case, you wouldn't see large numbers of threads talking about how the mechanics of 4e ruined people's immersion. I can tolerate a LARGE separation between the mechanics and what is going on. If the mechanics stayed exactly the same, I wouldn't refuse to play Barbarians or think that the designers had no idea what they were doing. On the other hand, I'd prefer a mechanic with less thinking. If I'm playing a Barbarian, I should be able to use the biggest attack I have, hit with it and do large damage. And then risk death when the enemy retaliates against me because I rushed in without thinking, only to be saved by the fighter's tactics.

Currently, the fighter plays more like that than the Barbarian, however.

 

[Mengu]

In our game (at level 3-4), the barbarian hardly ever took real damage. The defence difference was not that great, and he kept his Temp HP up so that when attacks did get through, they generally only ate at them. I think there were a few encounters where he took no "real" damage at all!

How hard were the encounters? How many real defenders were in the party? What defensive feats did the barbarian have? These will all play a factor in how much damage the barbarian takes. How is the defense difference not that great between an AC 14-15 barbarian, and an AC 19-20 real defender?

And if the barbarian isn't taking any real damage, he is not doing half his job, which is to put himself out there to draw attacks. The temp hit points from recuperating strike are only around 3-4 points. When hit by brutes, artillary or skirmishers, he should be taking significantly more damage than that unless he is extremely lucky.

At 16th level, with only armor specialization feats where possible and using standard array humans, the barbarian's AC is 28, while the wizard is 29, the rogue is 31, the warlord is 32, and the fighter is 35. 7 points of AC difference for the two front liners in the party is quite significant, when most monsters of their level need around a 12-14 to hit the fighter, and a 5-7 to hit the barbarian. Even at level 1, the difference between AC 14 and AC 19 for two front liners, is cause for concern.

 

[Orcus Porkus]

Regarding at-will powers:
Is it a good rule of thumb to
1) always take Howling Strike

2) take Recuperating Strike only with high CON, like a +4 bonus, and if you intend to get beaten up in the middle of melee

3) take Pressing Strike if using a reach weapon, or are low on CON, or want to be more a tactician than a defender who takes damage.

?

 

[Gort]

In our game (at level 3-4), the barbarian hardly ever took real damage. The defence difference was not that great, and he kept his Temp HP up so that when attacks did get through, they generally only ate at them. I think there were a few encounters where he took no "real" damage at all!

Wait a minute, his temporary hitpoints were able to absorb entire attacks? He should only have a couple of temporary HP at any time. Are you letting him stack them, by any chance? Because that's against the rules.

 

[Orcus Porkus]

Wait a minute, his temporary hitpoints were able to absorb entire attacks? He should only have a couple of temporary HP at any time. Are you letting him stack them, by any chance? Because that's against the rules.

That's not entirely true. PHB 294:

Don’t Add Together: If you get temporary hit
points from different sources, use the higher value as
your temporary hit point total instead of adding the
values together.

since recuperating strike is the same source, I think you can stack them.

 

[abyssaldeath]

No, the general rule is that bonuses from the same source do not stack, but bonuses from different sources do stack. That entry from PHB 294 is an exception to the rule that bonuses from different sources stack.

 

[ricardo440]

The temporary HP don't stack. Any new ones if greater than the old simply rewrite the old.