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Bards: Is it their personal charm or their charming personality?
- Thread starter Tom McCafferty
- Start date
Tom McCafferty
Explorer
You've missed the point of the thread.
Bards are supposed to be good with crowds. Any old character with some Diplomacy it seems can whip them up into a frenzy. As Diplomacy is an opposed roll a low level bard (such as mine) is scuppered by a LE Cleric with Protection from good and a bit of Diplomacy.
Bards are supposed to be good with crowds. Any old character with some Diplomacy it seems can whip them up into a frenzy. As Diplomacy is an opposed roll a low level bard (such as mine) is scuppered by a LE Cleric with Protection from good and a bit of Diplomacy.
IcyCool
First Post
Tom McCafferty said:
Bards have Diplomacy as a class skill for a reason. A 1st level bard with decent Charisma (14) and max ranks in Diplomacy gets a +6 to their roll. What sort of Diplomacy skill does the Cleric have, and why should it matter that he's LE or has Protection from Good up?
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
Tom McCafferty said:
I think I would say they have the potential to be very good with crowds, though that potential may not be realized. They certainly have the potential to pick up a lot of synergy bonuses with it by taking a lot of bluff and sense motive. Heck, I'd even give a +2 bonus for having a goodly amount invested in Perform (oratory).
But if the bard has decided to pursue other strategies, such as being more of a knowledgeable character rather than a face-man, that's an option. I don't think the bard necessarily has to be better at dealing with crowds, aside from performing in front of them, than any other character.
IcyCool
First Post
Tom McCafferty said:
I wanted to concentrate on this bit, and hopefully help you out with some suggestions for next time. I think my earlier comments might make it sound like I'm trying to insult you, and that is not my intent. I'm a big fan of bards, and I'd like to see what I can do to help. With that in mind, could you answer the following questions?
What, exactly, did you do to try and sway the lynch mob's attitude?
Was the mob being led by the LE cleric?
How big was the mob?
Thanks.
kanithardm
First Post
The diplomacy check should have been allowed. I also noticed that you mentioned that the cleric was LE, so obviously an enemy. Check out Rich Burlew's diplomacy ideas.
http://giantitp.com/Func0010.html
http://giantitp.com/Func0010.html
Last edited:
Diplomacy... Maxed.
Bluff... 5 ranks = +2 synergy.
Sense Motive... 5 ranks= +2 synergy.
Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty)... 5 ranks= +2 synergy.
All of those are on the bard's skill list.
All of those things are on no other skill list.
Make that character a half elf, and his skill bonus is through the roof before he puts two ranks into Diplomacy.
That is, of course, if you want to be able to deal with mobs. Otherwise it's just [song] "Kill, kill, kill, kill, the thing that's hurting me!" [/song]
Bluff... 5 ranks = +2 synergy.
Sense Motive... 5 ranks= +2 synergy.
Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty)... 5 ranks= +2 synergy.
All of those are on the bard's skill list.
All of those things are on no other skill list.
Make that character a half elf, and his skill bonus is through the roof before he puts two ranks into Diplomacy.
That is, of course, if you want to be able to deal with mobs. Otherwise it's just [song] "Kill, kill, kill, kill, the thing that's hurting me!" [/song]
Bront
The man with the probe
Bards make great facemen, great knowledge buffs, don't suck outright in weapon combat (close to the rogue), are reasonable spellcasters (only non-full spellcaster who still gets full progression of caster level), get 2 good saves, and get the bardic music. You just have to know how to use a bard.
A bard is never good at dealing with a situation directly, but is excelent are redirecting problems and subtly working behind the scenes. Inspire abilities help augment other party members, and the other abilities can change small groups of people's moods even when normal diplomacy won't help, and do other subtle things as well.
They are support characters, but very powerful ones when used properly.
A bard is never good at dealing with a situation directly, but is excelent are redirecting problems and subtly working behind the scenes. Inspire abilities help augment other party members, and the other abilities can change small groups of people's moods even when normal diplomacy won't help, and do other subtle things as well.
They are support characters, but very powerful ones when used properly.
Westgate Polks
First Post
Potential vs. Realized Potential
Let me start by asking Tom McCafferty a question: What game mechanic(s) did you use in youir attempt to stop the mob? The two options that come to mind are (1) bardic music and (2) talking (i.e. diplomacy).
Thanee very ably described the Bardic Music angle. If you attempted to use that class ability and the DM indicated you could not, then either the DM misinterpretted the rules OR he "invoked" Rule 0.
I want to focus on the second option and the comment you made in post 12 of the thread. Any conversation with the crowd as a whole should have encorporated a diplomacy check. If your DM did NOT, he likely erred. However, it is possible that he did make a check and you did not fare that well.
You are correct in saying "...Bards are supposed to be good with crowds..." This should be true but bears some examination. Fighters are good at fighting; this is reflected in their BAB, their HD, and the feat selection. Bards are supposed to be good with people and crowds; this is reflected in their class abilities (Bardic Music) and skill selection / skill point allocation. I think that if were "in full bard" (i.e. in public, with instrument in hand, etc.) AND you have 5+ ranks in an appropriate perform you would be entitled to a synergy bonus to your diplomacy check (as billd91 mentioned). That is one way to incorporate the Bard's talent with people.
However, ultimately, your character has to spend skill points to show how he shines. Obviously your performance rank(s) characterize his talent. Give him some ranks in diplomacy to really boost his effectiveness; otherwise he is pretty good with crowds (not as much as other bards) but better at some other skill you chose to allocate points to.
Let me start by asking Tom McCafferty a question: What game mechanic(s) did you use in youir attempt to stop the mob? The two options that come to mind are (1) bardic music and (2) talking (i.e. diplomacy).
Thanee very ably described the Bardic Music angle. If you attempted to use that class ability and the DM indicated you could not, then either the DM misinterpretted the rules OR he "invoked" Rule 0.
I want to focus on the second option and the comment you made in post 12 of the thread. Any conversation with the crowd as a whole should have encorporated a diplomacy check. If your DM did NOT, he likely erred. However, it is possible that he did make a check and you did not fare that well.
You are correct in saying "...Bards are supposed to be good with crowds..." This should be true but bears some examination. Fighters are good at fighting; this is reflected in their BAB, their HD, and the feat selection. Bards are supposed to be good with people and crowds; this is reflected in their class abilities (Bardic Music) and skill selection / skill point allocation. I think that if were "in full bard" (i.e. in public, with instrument in hand, etc.) AND you have 5+ ranks in an appropriate perform you would be entitled to a synergy bonus to your diplomacy check (as billd91 mentioned). That is one way to incorporate the Bard's talent with people.
However, ultimately, your character has to spend skill points to show how he shines. Obviously your performance rank(s) characterize his talent. Give him some ranks in diplomacy to really boost his effectiveness; otherwise he is pretty good with crowds (not as much as other bards) but better at some other skill you chose to allocate points to.
Tom McCafferty
Explorer
The reason the Bard was unable to influence the mob was due to the influence of the LE Cleric and overwelming circumstancial evidence. Basically the lynched character was found in the area of the murder and splattered with blood.
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