Base Hitpoints: Containing the Ripple.

[Sylrae]

Although I understand the logic behind a we behind the ears adventurer dying the first time hit with a sword due to lack of experience, character death in the first few sessions is a hugs joykill. And I do damage rolls out in the open, so I dont having to play DM god and allow the players to live (because theyll know i fudged the game).

So the first solution I came up with, which we used until this year, is that there was no such thing as characters with levels less than 3.
I've seen people use max hit points for all levels, but that makes all spellcasters roughly half as useful - I wont even play in a D&D game using that unless i make a melee character.

A way to still use level one characters that I came up with was to add a flat value to hit points.

First I came up with a flat 20. Then I tried CON Score. Then I Tried 10+ Con Score. What I came up with that seemd the best was.

9+(1/2 Con Score). It generates (in theory) numbers 10-18. Realistically its more like 14-18 (because players dont like HP Penalties). lol

This works great for the melee classes.. They just last longer.

Where the ripple comes in, is fr classes that rely primarily on limited resources. Casters, or Players with Monster Levels. These were designed with the assumption that the enemy would have 14-18 less hit points.

I have a couple proposed solutions. Tell me which are good, an give suggestions if you can.

1. Extra damage on damage spells: Allow the addition of Caster stat mod to the damage. So Magic Missile adds the Wizards int bonus to damage (for each missile. I'm not sure this is the best way to deal with it.

2. Extra Uses: Increase the number of uses for everything. This is kindof harder, because how much do you increase it by? at 14-18 extra hit ponts, that's roughly 3 levels of fighter in hit points (average hit points). So do you give a number of spells per day as if 3 levels higher (and increase the maximum number of times per day as well? How do you deal with the number of uses for Sus? (to clarify, you wouldnt get spells any earlier, you would just get a bigger number per day when you first gain the level.)

3. Other Suggestions?

 

[Kerrick]

Why not just give them stronger monsters? Consider them to be ECL +1 - problem solved.

 

[Sylrae]

Why not just give them stronger monsters? Consider them to be ECL +1 - problem solved.

Huh? OH YOURE SAYING ONLY GIVE THE BONUS HIT POINTS TO THE PCS! I've been giving the bonus hit points to everything... I shouldnt be? lol. I figured use the same rules for everyone..

Well the pcs DID complain combat took too long the other night... lol

 

[Kerrick]

Huh? OH YOURE SAYING ONLY GIVE THE BONUS HIT POINTS TO THE PCS! I've been giving the bonus hit points to everything... I shouldnt be? lol. I figured use the same rules for everyone..

Well yeah... otherwise it kind of defeats the purpose.

Well the pcs DID complain combat took too long the other night... lol

 

[Sylrae]

The purpose wasnt to make the fights easier, just to make them not die from a single attack. lol

I've cut it back to giving monsters only HALF the bonus HP. Which is really about 1/2 - 3/4 a round of combat worth of extra hit points at low levels.

 

[Hawken]

Wow! I'm gone a week and when I get back, double the threads! You guys have really been busy! Anyone else start posting or is it just the three of us again?

Sylrae, I'm not sure I understand your predicament. From what you say, your problem is low level characters dying in one hit.

It seems that you solved it starting characters off at 3rd level. That's 3HD while they're still fighting 1-2HD monsters and maybe a 4th or 5th BBEG. That should keep them from going to the grave after a solid hit.

Are you giving them those bonus hit points (9 + whatever) at 3rd level? Or making them start at 1st and giving it to them there? I'm not sure which way you're going with that.

One option would be to give them 3rd level HD at 1st level, or even MAX HD for their 1st three levels, and then they don't get anymore HP until they hit 4th level and on.

Another easy solution is to just give them their Con score in bonus hit points. That shores up the lower levels while at higher levels the extra hit points are mitigated by crappy dice rolls and everyone still comes out around average hit points or slightly higher. Or if you want them to still roll, have them roll 1d6+4 (assuming a 10 Con) for extra HP. If their Con is over 10, give them 1 bonus HP per point over 10. If it is under 10, then just treat their Con as a 10.

This could be explained as just one of those things that sets them apart from commoners and other NPCs. And you could apply the rule to BBEGs and important NPCs while everyone else just has the standard. This way you don't have to worry about applying it to all monsters, just the important people.

If you want slightly tougher monsters (if combat is going too quickly or easily for the PCs), give the monsters 3/4 avg HP instead of 1/2 avg. At 75% HP of their HD, that gives them maybe an extra round of survivability, not long enough to over power the group, but enough to be a credible threat in the face of heavy damage PCs.

 

[Kerrick]

StormingMarcus is around too, but I haven't seen anyone else yet.

Are you giving them those bonus hit points (9 + whatever) at 3rd level? Or making them start at 1st and giving it to them there? I'm not sure which way you're going with that.

I think he's giving them the extra hp at L1.

This could be explained as just one of those things that sets them apart from commoners and other NPCs. And you could apply the rule to BBEGs and important NPCs while everyone else just has the standard. This way you don't have to worry about applying it to all monsters, just the important people.

Yeah, like the heroic array - you're special, so you get more hp/better stats. I'd go with this one - normal monsters don't really need the extra hit points (especially not at low levels), and once you get up to L4-5, it's not all that noticeable. BBEGs should be special and last longer, so giving them a few extra hp would work nicely.

 

[Sylrae]

The idea is to prevent them from dying in one hit at level one, without having them start at a higher level (which is how I used to solve the problem, just assume everything is level 3 or higher).

The bonus hitpoint formula I came up with bove seems to be working great (we've played 2 sessions with it so far)

Basically, players get 9(half the max con score for a human) + half their con score. this is based on CON, but to a minimum of ten, which realistically gives 13-18 bonus hit points to each player.

For monsters I do the same, but cut the bonus hit points in half to make combat not take forever. For something like a boss I would use the full value.

The thing I'm saying is theoretically a problem (though it hasnt come up yet due to a low number of spellcasters in the game) is that the number of spells that a caster gets is still based on the assumption of the lack of extra hit points.

I'm thinking that means that the caster will have 3 levels less worth of spells overall

(14-18 bonus hit points, average of 15.5 = 15). Say a fighter, they average roughly 5 hit points per level, thus thats 3 levels of hit points.

the thing im wondering, is should I increase spells per day to compensate? Or is it not a big enough deal to worry about?

What about x/day limited class abilities? should they be increased as if by 3 levels higher per day?

 

[Kerrick]

The question is, are the players finding it harder to kill the monsters? If yes, then it might be a problem and you might need to increase their spell selection. If no, then it's fine. Personally, like I said, I'd leave monster hit points along (except for bosses) - if the players are ripping through them too easily, either toss more at them or give them slightly tougher monsters. Giving them (the PCs) extra hit points effectively increases their ECL by +1 to +2, so they can handle greater threats.

 

[jdsivyer]

The question is, are the players finding it harder to kill the monsters? If yes, then it might be a problem and you might need to increase their spell selection. If no, then it's fine. Personally, like I said, I'd leave monster hit points along (except for bosses) - if the players are ripping through them too easily, either toss more at them or give them slightly tougher monsters. Giving them (the PCs) extra hit points effectively increases their ECL by +1 to +2, so they can handle greater threats.

Hey there. In all honesty, I've never really paid much attention to CR when it comes to monsters. Usually, I just have a quick look at how many hp a creature is likely to have and go from there, to see whether or not the pcs are capable of giving it a decent fight.

As for starting hps for PCs, I tend to give them max. hps. So a Fighter starts with 10 + CON bonus. This seems to do the trick in my campaigns. However, if at first level you're planning on dishing harder monsters up against the PCs, you could start off with 2d10 for Fighters, 2d8 for Clerics, etc. And perhaps use max. hit dice for the PCs? This way you could increase the threat levels of monsters, instead of dishing up a few goblins here and there as per usual

Just as thought