D&D 5E Battle master combat maneuvers

[Unwise]

[MENTION=12032]brehobit[/MENTION] some people take Martial Adept or whatever it is called that gives you one superiority dice. That is often what people are referring to.

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, so excuse me if this has been mentioned. I really don't like Riposte as a maneuver, I mean I love the style of it but it is just not effective for me. In effect for me, it is a 65% chance of d6+4 damage. This is competing against using it for another maneuver that is a 100% chance of d8 damage, plus a cool effect, or 'healing' d8+3 damage myself. It is just not worth it to me. I do have it, as I play a Musketeer and it would seem wrong not to have it, but I seldom use it.

I love parry, it makes me into a tank without having the huge AC of a plate+shield fighter.

Disarm has been very useful to me for a lot of reasons that are hard to theory-craft. I get advantage on intimidate when I have disarmed people, it is a show of combat superiority and demoralizes people. Often it just ends fights then and there. It is also just great for making people drop stuff, like the pirate lord swinging holding a rope, the villain holding a dagger to a hostage, the evil priest with his focus item, the mad bomber with his grenade, firearm users hate it as they spent half an age loading the damn thing just to have it go off when it hits the ground. If your DM lets you use it with Riposte it is almost and auto-success on intimidation

 

[Zaran]

I've seen at least one other post where someone said they had 4 maneuvers at 3rd or 4th level. Shouldn't it be 3? Am I missing something ('cause that would be great if I am!)

Nah, I probably just remembered having Evasive Footwork but I don't have it. Would explain why I never tried using it.

 

[Chocolategravy]

I really don't like Riposte as a maneuver, I mean I love the style of it but it is just not effective for me. In effect for me, it is a 65% chance of d6+4 damage.

The superiority die is added to the damage on a hit. It will also be a bigger benefit if the normal weapon damage is higher and d6+4 is on the very low end. Flaming weapons, hunter's mark, sneak attack dice, rage damage bonus etc. can all make riposte a big DPS boost.

 

[CapnZapp]

Sweeping attack could be useful, but how often does an extra d8 damage to a secondary target matter? I'm going to guess "almost never".

Anyone else feel that maneuvre was botched?

I mean, there are several other choices that deal guaranteed bonus damage, but this one requires your attack roll to also beat the secondary target's AC. And for no added benefit. Hmm.

I don't see how this maneuver can compete with the rest because of this. Basically you give up a trip or goad (etc) for the ability to unfocus your damage!

To my mind, in order for this particular maneuver to stand out among the competition the extra damage needs to be dealt either
a) to both original and (possibly) to secondary target
or
b) to every secondary target (again if you beat their AC)

In case a) now this maneuvre compensates you for the lack of disarm, trip or goad (etc) with extra damage, but only when you can catch two opponents right next to each other.

In case b) this maneuvre is good when surrounded, but pretty much only then

I haven't used Sweeping that much in 5e, but my experience with a similar power in 4e was that the extra little damage to a second target came in useful way more often than I would've thought. If you're holding the line against a whole bunch of mooks, spreading damage out as much as possible can mean the difference between downing 1 foe a round and 2, especially when you factor in casters plinking with their low-damage cantrips. Often that extra d8 is all you need.

That was probably because 4th edition mooks usually have exactly one (1) hit point.

You need to be fighting Commoners and Goblins for a d8 to make a meaningful difference in 5e.

In all other cases, it would be better to simply choose another maneuver where the extra damage is dealt to the original target, guaranteed.

 

[Ancalagon]

[MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] this is well argued, but did you have to use the thread necromancy spell? I know it's a bonus action for you but still...

 

[Pauln6]

I think riposte should just be superiority die damage to make it more in keeping with fast, lower damage weapons.

There is also a martial supplement with more manoeuvres, including more warlord ones (plus a warlord Class). I am going to hand out one extra die, plus one extra manoeuvre per level bump, to be picked from the fan stuff. I will also give purple dragon Knights access to some warlord manoeuvres and give the martial adept feat two dice plus one extra manoeuvre. Nobody ever takes it as it is.

 

[cmad1977]

I think riposte should just be superiority die damage to make it more in keeping with fast, lower damage weapons.

There is also a martial supplement with more manoeuvres, including more warlord ones (plus a warlord Class). I am going to hand out one extra die, plus one extra manoeuvre per level bump, to be picked from the fan stuff. I will also give purple dragon Knights access to some warlord manoeuvres and give the martial adept feat two dice plus one extra manoeuvre. Nobody ever takes it as it is.

I like riposte as is. Granted I'm the DM of the game and the BM is a player. It gives him very 'samurai' moments where the enemy slashes at him, he 'ripostes' and the bad guy falls dead.


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[CydKnight]

Temp hp last until a long rest. So if you're able to Rally the party and short rest immediately afterward, it can be pretty nice. In terms of overall damage prevention this can be a lot bigger than Parry.

Riposte vs Parry isn't quite apples to apples since it's guaranteed damage prevention vs a chance of extra damage output, but note that the extra damage can be quite a bit larger than the damage prevention. I tend to value offense much more than defense (due to the way D&D combats tend to work) so I don't favor Parry so much, but it's definitely competitive.

Totally agree that Trip and Menacing are near the top of list. Keep in mind Menacing only inflicts fear of you. It doesn't help your allies much - that's what Goading is for. I haven't used Sweeping that much in 5e, but my experience with a similar power in 4e was that the extra little damage to a second target came in useful way more often than I would've thought. If you're holding the line against a whole bunch of mooks, spreading damage out as much as possible can mean the difference between downing 1 foe a round and 2, especially when you factor in casters plinking with their low-damage cantrips. Often that extra d8 is all you need.

The only thing I can think of with Lunging is that the wording does stack with reach weapons, so that could be situationally useful.

I agree with you on the extra damage output of Riposte and like it as a favored maneuver for a Strength based fighter especially if you have the Sentinel feat. Were I to have a Dex based, dual/2-weapon fighter as the OP describes, I can see the argument for choosing Parry instead of Riposte. There is a good chance you will have a lower AC with that build (lighter armor to take adv of higher dex and no shield since wielding 2 weapons in melee) making the damage reduction of Parry more valuable to you since you are more likely to get hit.

 

[Pauln6]

I like riposte as is. Granted I'm the DM of the game and the BM is a player. It gives him very 'samurai' moments where the enemy slashes at him, he 'ripostes' and the bad guy falls dead.


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Lol. Yes but the issue for me is that riposte is a quick hit to take advantage. Making it more optimal for large, slow weapons seems counter intuitive. At least with superiority die plus stat bonus damage, the larger, slower weapons don't get an extra bonus.