D&D 5E Battle master combat maneuvers

[brehobit]

Playing a battle master (dex-based, dual-weapon) and looking for thoughts on the various maneuvers. I'm going to place them in the order I'm thinking of taking them and include my thoughts.

• Parry: Very nice for a dex-based character, at least at lower-levels. It's like d8+3 healing for your reaction and gets to d8+5 at level 6. Only usable agaist melee attacks is a huge drawback.
• Trip attack: In an ideal world, knocking someone down could give much of the rest of the party advantage. Even better, if you do knock a baddy down, might be time for an action surge to get advantage yourself. Also will knock a flyer out of the air and works at range! Limitations: Extremely dependent on initiative order and exactly what you are fighting. Plus opponent gets a STR save. Plus creatures larger than large are immune.
• Menacing attack: Frighten is huge. Giving the target disadvantage on attack rolls and skill checks is a big deal. Lasts until the end of your next turn, which could be darn useful. Add in the movement restriction and it could be gross. Limitations: Lots of things immune to fear. Creature may be able to move out of line-of-sight easily enough and still be effective.
• Commander's strike: If you've got someone in the party that packs a huge attack, this could be huge. Very very useful with a rogue. Crazy useful if they are an assassin and you have surprise. Limitations: Uses an attack and bonus action from you and a reaction from them. Very party dependent. I only see my character using it when attacking from range. Mostly will take this for roleplaying reasons (my character much prefers to avoid "messy" melee engagements).
• Pushing attack: Very DM/world specific really. If your GM ran a lot of 4e and likes to have "fun" terrain, this could be great. Otherwise, might be basically useless or even actively hurtful to your team (pushes them out of reach allowing them more flexibility in their next action). That said, I'm playing a pirate game so expect/hope for opportunities to push folks overboard.
• Distracting attack: Very useful if you have a big hitter. Trip is often better, but no save here and size/initiative order do not matter.
• Goading attack: Very useful if the target happens to be immune to fear and you are attacking at range (so you can't use menacing attack which is almost always better). Not horrible, just prefer menacing attack...
• Precision Attack. Probably more useful for those two-hander folks due to the extra damage a hit does or anyone with a -5/+10 feat. But sometimes you just really want a hit. Limitations: Biggest problem is that you can only use one maneuver per attack so you can't stack a trip or something on it now.
• Disarming attack: This one I'm mixed on. If you have a way to prevent them from just picking up their weapon, could be huge. If not, very weak.

Others: Rally sounds okay if you've got a high charisma for some reason. But even then seems weak. Do notice, there is no built-in expiration date on those temp. hit points. So you could, AFAICT, grant them for use in a later fight (even after a rest?) Sweeping attack could be useful, but how often does an extra d8 damage to a secondary target matter? I'm going to guess "almost never". Lunging attack could be useful where your plan is to attack and run I guess? Or where you just can't quite close for whatever reason? Eh.

Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? Any cool ideas for these maneuvers?

 

[Warmaster Horus]

You missed Riposte. Since I like options with all my action types, this one is in my core 4.

 

[ad_hoc]

You missed Riposte. Since I like options with all my action types, this one is in my core 4.

This.

I am surprised it is not even on your list. I would put it at the top.

Trip Attack is worth having in case you face flyers. Not as important early on. Definitely get it by level 7.

Parry is good at low levels and you can always trade it out at level 7.

 

[brehobit]

Yep, I missed Riposte. I'm not planning on having it early (ever?) because of parry. In general, I'd prefer to block X damage done to me than do X damage. And as a dex-based fighter the numbers are the same (baring magic items). But it should certainly go on the list as it's better than a number of other options. For me, it's probably down with disarming attack...

 

[Kobold Stew]

For my Battle Master, in a pirate-themed game, I chose Menacing, Disarming, and Pushing. That suggests looking at the same list in the same general context leads to different results. Already, in my book, that's a win for the system.

Since we agree on Menacing (it's #3 on your list), I'll focus on the other two.

Pushing offers an effective means of battlefield control, especially when facing more than one opponent. I can see how it could be ineffective against a single opponent, but that's not often. And, as you hint, it is a great means of pushing someone overboard while in combat, effectively removing them from a shipboard fight. I don not see this as DM specific.

Disarming, however, is DM-specific. Have a talk with your DM about how he or she thinks disarming works. If after you disarm someone, they can just pick it up, yes it's useless. If after you disarm them *you* can just pick it up, or you can kick it away, then it's not useless. Have that conversation, and then you will know whether it's worth it to you.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

Yep, I missed Riposte. I'm not planning on having it early (ever?) because of parry. In general, I'd prefer to block X damage done to me than do X damage. And as a dex-based fighter the numbers are the same (baring magic items). But it should certainly go on the list as it's better than a number of other options. For me, it's probably down with disarming attack...

I'd rather attack than limit damage on a single hit. My fighter has other damage-reducing strategies in play and I typically only use one defensive-minded Maneuver (Menacing).

 

[HardcoreDandDGirl]

I wish there was more verity to them...

(3.5 Bo9s)Bone crusher (deal extra damage and weaken foe)
(3.5 Bo9s)Mountain Hammer (ignore resistance)
(4e warlord) Sunder Armor (lower AC of target)
(4e warlord) Leading the attack (grant allies bonus to hit target)

are ones I wish they had updated...

and maybe some magical ones too like dessert wind Bo9S and Swordmage ones from 4e...

Holocaust cloak, Fire snake charge, green flame blade, and booming blade could all work

you might even get into some of the warden and avenger powers

 

[bganon]

Temp hp last until a long rest. So if you're able to Rally the party and short rest immediately afterward, it can be pretty nice. In terms of overall damage prevention this can be a lot bigger than Parry.

Riposte vs Parry isn't quite apples to apples since it's guaranteed damage prevention vs a chance of extra damage output, but note that the extra damage can be quite a bit larger than the damage prevention. I tend to value offense much more than defense (due to the way D&D combats tend to work) so I don't favor Parry so much, but it's definitely competitive.

Totally agree that Trip and Menacing are near the top of list. Keep in mind Menacing only inflicts fear of you. It doesn't help your allies much - that's what Goading is for. I haven't used Sweeping that much in 5e, but my experience with a similar power in 4e was that the extra little damage to a second target came in useful way more often than I would've thought. If you're holding the line against a whole bunch of mooks, spreading damage out as much as possible can mean the difference between downing 1 foe a round and 2, especially when you factor in casters plinking with their low-damage cantrips. Often that extra d8 is all you need.

The only thing I can think of with Lunging is that the wording does stack with reach weapons, so that could be situationally useful.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

...Keep in mind Menacing only inflicts fear of you. It doesn't help your allies much - that's what Goading is for. ...

You're not interpreting it correctly. Yes, YOU are the object of fear but you created the Frightened condition on the effected creature. This means they have disadvantage on attacks and ability checks while they can see you (the source of their fear) and they can't willingly move closer to you per the PHB p. 290.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Thoughts? Anything I'm missing? Any cool ideas for these maneuvers?

Kind of a tangent, but are you starting at 1st? Battlemaster kicks in at 3rd. And, how long do you foresee the campaign going? It might be worthwhile to get your three top maneuver picks at 3rd level. It may or may not be worth worrying about the next three (or even taking the fighter levels to get your 4th-6th best maneuvers).