Been awhile "The Outbreak"

[Grimmjow]

I should think that the Flame of Hope would be one of the easiest Paragon Paths to integrate into such a campaign. The world is overrun with undead. The surrounding land is falling to them. Despair is everywhere. Where more do you need hope? And the embodiment of hope being someone who throws cleansing radiant fire at the undead? Perfect!

So Pelor's Exarch comes down, from on high, to bestow the literal Flame of Hope upon the Invoker. If the Exarch dies, then so goes hope.

That would be really fun. Like probably more fun then your realized when you put it down. My brother loves it when he gets attention from his god pelor. So something like that he would enjoy beyond words! Thanks so much!

First off, why don't you want it to apply to the more powerful/intelligent undead?

Do you want the shadow cloud to function like a terrain effect, or do you want to change the monsters themselves?

One option might be to give lesser (non-minion) undead regeneration while in the shadow cloud (with a "if the undead takes radiant damage, it loses regeneration until the end of its next turn") clause. Since vampires already have regeneration, this doesn't buff them, but it will still work for things like death knights and liches.

Another choice might be a theme or template (but warning, 4e templates blow).

i guess the main reason is that i don't want the smart undead to gain this mainly because my party hasn't had any experience with these guys, so i don't want them to be too different, but i guys it doesn't really matter.

i do like the regeneration thing. I was also thinking that maybe radiant damage could be halved while in this cloud, maybe even a -2 to attack rolls with the radiant key word.

pretty cool, I'd make the angel a solo version. For the skill challenge, I'd make it a little more complex than just "convince him to leave"- maybe there's an action you can take elsewhere in the dungeon that allows him to leave; stage 1 of the skill challenge is to convince him that he wants to leave, and when you finish stage 1 he reveals what you have to do to break the binding that keeps him in place. Stage 2 is to break the binding- maybe there's a religious ritual that must be performed, or perhaps a seal must be sundered, etc; I would make it so that stage 2 has a different set of skills that apply than stage 1.

Ya i like that a lot too. (Your rocking this man!). Charisma based on stage one, then on stage too probably wisdom int stuff.

what if, when they reach the far side of the hall, they discover that the door in the end is false? The real exit is a secret door that opens when one of the statues is physically manipulated and pushed along a hidden track beneath it- basically, Mr. Warpriest uses his shadow jaunt to bypass the trap, only to discover that he has been tricked and is now on the wrong side of the hall. The "secret door opens with manipulation of statue" bit also means that the party has to interact with the trap in order to keep going along this route.

(Although I'm pretty strongly anti-railroad, traps that the pcs must pass in order to enter a dungeon make perfect sense to me, and definitely don't cause my railroad alarm to flash.)

that would be sweet too. Ive never done that to my players (fake doors) so that would be cool. perception would help they have really high on that but i know they won't use it until they know the door is a fake! Thanks man!

 

[the Jester]

Happy to be of help.

that would be sweet too. Ive never done that to my players (fake doors) so that would be cool. perception would help they have really high on that but i know they won't use it until they know the door is a fake! Thanks man!

Even if they do, they still have to deal with the trap while they get the secret door (or whatever) open. It would just save them a round or two (which is fine-- that's what smart play is all about!).

 

[Grimmjow]

one more thing jester before you leave this thread!

The finial fight will be against Orcus. But my recurring villain is a human necromancer named Mikal. The players have met him before but they thought him to be a good guy, a servant of the raven queen even! I want the players to meet Mikal a few times through out paragon and epic tier before the finial battle with him, which will be right before the fight with orcus. What are some cool things i could give to him? I want him to gain one or two new powers each time the players encounter him. I may give him a few templates (death master and wizard) and orcus blood cult powers right off the bat but as time goes on i want him to gain powers unique to him. Any ideas for that?

 

[the Jester]

What are his goals and motivations like?

What kind of necromancer is he? Is he a "Death Magic" type, a "hordes of undead" type, a "study the forbidden" type?

How are the pcs going to know what his powers are, anyway? I get the impression that they are going to be false friends with this guy at first, not realizing that he's a threat until near the end.

I would stay away from templates; they aren't worth it in 4e. Too much work to apply, upgrade is status role without commensurate increase in actions, not enough payoff. This is one area where 3e monster design beat 4e monster design hands down!

 

[Grimmjow]

His main goal is actually the same as our blade singer. King of the gods. They are both trying to get there in different ways of course but they share the same goal. He believes that any form of magic he can gain from serving orcus for a while will help him gain this goal.

Ive never really though of what kind of magic he studies. He has already killed some soldiers and taken control of them as undead seconds later, and i know that he will have undead following him around whenever the players meet him, so I'm guessing that he's a "horde of undead" kind of guy.

The players already know use evil. Like i said before they watched him turn soldiers of the raven queen into dread warriors. This was at the end of the adventure and he walked off as they players got defeated by the undead, and they haunt seen him sense.

The reason i want him to have a lot of powers is because the problem with solo monsters (as i plan for him to be) is that they seem to run out o powers fast, and then just fire at will attacks while waiting for recharge powers to become useable again. I want him to have an unlimited amount of attack options in combat, so that each time they face him (probably like 5 times in 20 levels) is a completely different fight, with the last one being the best of course.

The only reason i use templates when making a monster from scotch is because i feel like it gives me something to start off with. Knowing i want this guy to be a necromancer, i can give him the wizard and deathless master (or w/e its called), see what i have and then move on to what i need from there, removing or editing as needed. i do understand what you mean though when you say they arnt the best.

Also something i really wanna add to him (won't be to hard either) is the blazing skeleton graft from open grave. Blazing skeleton is my favorite, and my players hate them by now. So giving him the claw of one would be sweet! XD

 

[Ryujin]

Sounds like his ultimate goal might be somewhat the same as that of Orcus; unseat the Raven Queen and take over her spheres of influence. If a relatively new 'god' was to do that first, then I think it would be easier for Orcus to kill that inexperienced newbie and take the powers for himself.

Consider making this guy up like an actual Wizard (Controller) character, with encounter and daily powers. You can stat him as a monster, but do a fairly normal level progression. In this way you can have him evolve through the characters' levels, so that they see how he advances and gains power. You could even give him a Paragon Path and Epic Destiny.

 

[Grimmjow]

Sounds like his ultimate goal might be somewhat the same as that of Orcus; unseat the Raven Queen and take over her spheres of influence. If a relatively new 'god' was to do that first, then I think it would be easier for Orcus to kill that inexperienced newbie and take the powers for himself.

This is true. By the time the players are level 30 (a long ways away) Orcus will have managed to capture the raven queen. When the players finnialy face him, the will have drained most of her power (giving him new powers, which ill need help with when the time comes.).

I was planning on having him (the wizard) do battle with the players right before the battle with Orcus. Maybe in stead after they defeat orcus, he will show up and try to finish off the raven queen, in order to take her thone. The reason i would do it in this order is because i have plans of using him in another campange, so i dont want his soul sunndered by orcus.

Consider making this guy up like an actual Wizard (Controller) character, with encounter and daily powers. You can stat him as a monster, but do a fairly normal level progression. In this way you can have him evolve through the characters' levels, so that they see how he advances and gains power. You could even give him a Paragon Path and Epic Destiny.

I was planning on him leveling up along with the players but i had never considered using him as a character in stead of a monster. Now that i think about it, i could just make him a mage with necromancy/nethermancy magic, then the paragon path that goes with the necromancy one and im not sure what id do for a epic destiniy. I would prolly not give him an epic destiny just becuase, like i said above, i have plans to use him in another campainge.

Thanks for the thoughts to think on!

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Maybe in stead after they defeat orcus, he will show up and try to finish off the raven queen, in order to take her thone.

You could have Necromancer dupe the players into thinking he summoned Orcus to destroy the world (or whatever apocalyptic reason). Necromancer's plan is to summon Orcus and let the players try to defeat him. Once the players have weaken Orcus enough Necromancer will step in, kill Orcus, and take his godhood throne.

As long as you play fair and are open to the players figuring out that they're being manipulated, I think this could be an exciting intrigue campaign on both sides of the screen.

 

[Ryujin]

This is true. By the time the players are level 30 (a long ways away) Orcus will have managed to capture the raven queen. When the players finnialy face him, the will have drained most of her power (giving him new powers, which ill need help with when the time comes.).

I was planning on having him (the wizard) do battle with the players right before the battle with Orcus. Maybe in stead after they defeat orcus, he will show up and try to finish off the raven queen, in order to take her thone. The reason i would do it in this order is because i have plans of using him in another campange, so i dont want his soul sunndered by orcus.

I was planning on him leveling up along with the players but i had never considered using him as a character in stead of a monster. Now that i think about it, i could just make him a mage with necromancy/nethermancy magic, then the paragon path that goes with the necromancy one and im not sure what id do for a epic destiniy. I would prolly not give him an epic destiny just becuase, like i said above, i have plans to use him in another campainge.

Thanks for the thoughts to think on!

If you decide that you do want to give him an Epic Destiny, then a good choice might be Archlich, since it reflects mastery of necromancy. One of my players went the route of this ED and I gave him an effect similar to what you see in the ghost pirates, in the "Pirates of the Caribbean" movies. Rather than appearing alive in sunlight and undead in the shadows though, I said that he appears undead in the presence of necrotic energy or in the Shadowfell.

Other than that it's just an incredibly good 'disguise', that people might be able to see through. It lets him interact with normal people without them having heart attacks, while maintaining the air of undeath.

 

[Grimmjow]

both of these are great ideas thanks guys