D&D 4E Ben Riggs' "What the Heck Happened with 4th Edition?" seminar at Gen Con 2023

[Micah Sweet]

How would this appeal to the bean counters if they didn't expect people to actually buy it?

People buy almost anything WotC puts out, unless they have specific expectations that aren't being met (like with Spelljammer).

 

[Micah Sweet]

You're not going to find a bigger Wizards critic than I, but I'm totally down to read that sort of stuff. If Wizards was doing less terrible stuff, I probably would have bought it. Some people are just lore junkies, other people love to steal ideas. Do we not all have an RPG that we buy books for just to read?

Excellent point. I just never heard of anyone being particularly interested in WotC's giant-lore. I guess there's a huge groundswell of D&D giant enthusiasts I know nothing about. Who knew?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Excellent point. I just never heard of anyone being particularly interested in WotC's giant-lore. I guess there's a huge groundswell of D&D giant enthusiasts I know nothing about. Who knew?

How huge does it have to be? I'll just note any number of books that sold well for any number of systems involved things no one I'd ever heard of would be interested in--and I've made a strong attempt over the years to keep my finger on the pulse of the hobby to the degree its possible--but that didn't mean they didn't exist. Sometimes an interested subset is all you need.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Excellent point. I just never heard of anyone being particularly interested in WotC's giant-lore. I guess there's a huge groundswell of D&D giant enthusiasts I know nothing about. Who knew?

People are down for lore, especially with such a dearth of official material being printed. While giants might not be dragons, they are monsters who are not as explored as others with big, interesting societies. They are also a notable focus in official materials, whether it be classic stuff (Against the Giants) or modern stuff (Storm King's Thunder). Again, that's the sort of stuff I'd be interested in even while I don't play 5E just for inspiration... if, well, Wizards didn't kill my interest in their business.

 

[Lanefan]

People are down for lore, especially with such a dearth of official material being printed. While giants might not be dragons, they are monsters who are not as explored as others with big, interesting societies. They are also a notable focus in official materials, whether it be classic stuff (Against the Giants) or modern stuff (Storm King's Thunder).

And next thing we know there'll be a push to make them PC-playable, resulting in their being neutered down in order to balance with other PC-playable species and in the process ruining the whole idea.

 

[Justice and Rule]

And next thing we know there'll be a push to make them PC-playable, resulting in their being neutered down in order to balance with other PC-playable species and in the process ruining the whole idea.

 

[Hussar]

People buy almost anything WotC puts out, unless they have specific expectations that aren't being met (like with Spelljammer).

And yet funnily enough, Spelljammer is selling very well.

So on one hand you insult 5e fans for having no taste - they’ll buy almost anything WotC puts out- while on the other complaining that WotC is trying to maximize profits.

Which is it? If fans will just buy anything, then why didn’t they buy earlier edition material? If we’re saying that poorly performing material isn’t meeting specific expectations then most of 2e was a total failure.

I’m thinking there’s a fair degree of self serving going on.

 

[Hussar]

Excellent point. I just never heard of anyone being particularly interested in WotC's giant-lore. I guess there's a huge groundswell of D&D giant enthusiasts I know nothing about. Who knew?

Ok. You’ve repeatedly stated this.

What?

Hrm. Most popular modules of all time. Hugely popular 5e module. A monster that features in tons of adventures. Bags of lore surrounding giants.

Considering you’ve endlessly bitched that you want WotC to do more lore stuff, what exactly did you want?

 

[Micah Sweet]

And yet funnily enough, Spelljammer is selling very well.

So on one hand you insult 5e fans for having no taste - they’ll buy almost anything WotC puts out- while on the other complaining that WotC is trying to maximize profits.

Which is it? If fans will just buy anything, then why didn’t they buy earlier edition material? If we’re saying that poorly performing material isn’t meeting specific expectations then most of 2e was a total failure.

I’m thinking there’s a fair degree of self serving going on.

To be fair, I did say WotC fans, which postdated 2e, but I also never this wasn't filtered through my personal preference. You know, just like everyone else who isn't throwing around statistics.

 

[MockingBird]

Ok. You’ve repeatedly stated this.

What?

Hrm. Most popular modules of all time. Hugely popular 5e module. A monster that features in tons of adventures. Bags of lore surrounding giants.

Considering you’ve endlessly bitched that you want WotC to do more lore stuff, what exactly did you want?

And has been said to be one of the stronger books released recently.