D&D 5E Do we need a Fifth Edition Revival (5ER)?

[teitan]

what are slow sales for you? Even if no one updates, they should maintain the same sales that 2014 did before them. Obviously there will be a lot more updates than that however

With the high sales continuing on 5e and new player influx I could see many players from the last 2 years not buying into the new edition at first because of sunk cost, they already paid 100-150 for their books and now they're asking 120-180 for new ones sort of thing. Slow sales for D&D are still high sales for anyone else. If they are as backward compatible as they are claiming then many may not see a reason once the new books release and if they are... what is the compelling reason aside from the new Monster Manual for a veteran DM to have their monsters in line with MOTM and later releases following the DD1 format? They haven't provided one yet, nor for their VTT over groups already using Roll20 etc at this point. So slower adoption is probably written into expectations. I expect gangbusters first month or so and then a slower sales with 5e stock still out there and as it filters out the new stock picking up. It will still be a success and dominate the market, overall it will probably be stronger but revised will take time to reach the same install base.

 

[mamba]

With the high sales continuing on 5e and new player influx I could see many players from the last 2 years not buying into the new edition at first because of sunk cost

even if they do not that 1) leaves all the players coming in once 2024 is released and 2) all the players that have been around longer

Slow sales for D&D are still high sales for anyone else.

so what are slow sales to you. Same as 2014 now / in 2022 or so, less than 2014 now, significantly more than 2014 now (say twice as many per month, for at least several months) ? At what point is it not slow?

If they are as backward compatible as they are claiming then many may not see a reason once the new books release

you get plenty of changed / new subclasses, compatible does not mean identical. The value of the new MM and DMG might be in the eye of the beholder

what is the compelling reason aside from the new Monster Manual for a veteran DM to have their monsters in line with MOTM and later releases following the DD1 format?

they might like the format better, they might want the additional monsters. You decide, I was asking what constitutes slow sales

So slower adoption is probably written into expectations.

What is slower adoption? Give me some numbers here, relative to the 2014 sales numbers...

I expect gangbusters first month or so and then a slower sales with 5e stock still out there and as it filters out the new stock picking up.

why would anyone still buy 2014 books when the 2024 are out, I am not seeing this as a queue where 2014 has to clear through the channels first

It will still be a success and dominate the market, overall it will probably be stronger but revised will take time to reach the same install base.

of course it will take time to reach a larger install base, but that was not the question If that is what you meant then well, duh, of course

 

[teitan]

even if they do not that 1) leaves all the players coming in once 2024 is released and 2) all the players that have been around longer


so what are slow sales to you. Same as 2014 now / in 2022 or so, less than 2014 now, significantly more than 2014 now (say twice as many per month, for at least several months) ? At what point is it not slow?


you get plenty of changed / new subclasses, compatible does not mean identical. The value of the new MM and DMG might be in the eye of the beholder


they might like the format better, they might want the additional monsters. You decide, I was asking what constitutes slow sales


What is slower adoption? Give me some numbers here, relative to the 2014 sales numbers...


why would anyone still buy 2014 books when the 2024 are out, I am not seeing this as a queue where 2014 has to clear through the channels first


of course it will take time to reach a larger install base, but that was not the question If that is what you meant then well, duh, of course

I addressed your question, asking me multiple times won't get me to say what you want.

 

[mamba]

I addressed your question, asking me multiple times won't get me to say what you want.

you did not address the question, or I would not need to ask it again… repeating the same vague stuff that got me to ask for a clarification in the first place is not addressing the question, but you do you

Not saying what I am asking for (which you call saying what I want) is the very definition of not answering…

 

[EzekielRaiden]

no one is talking about WotC here...

Well, I was, and when I did, you responded with...

warlock looked rather different some playtests before. That 2024 sticks so close to 2014 is on WotC, not an inherent limitation

I had not caught the concept that this was pure 3PP. I saw multiple references to "2024 5e" and such, and that's why I was speaking about 5.5e.

see above, no one is talking about WotC here but you

Actually, @TwoSix, @overgeeked, @MichaelSomething, and @Retreater have all done so. Hence why I took references to "backwards compatibility"--some of which came from you yourself--and the OP specifically talking about Hasbro and WotC moves, to mean that that was a relevant topic.

Obviously, 3PP can do whatever it wants. That's literally always been true and it feels weird to even need to mention it, like "the sun rises."

Sure, they will be somewhat similar, but if they aren’t then why even bother sticking to 5e at all. Theoretically you can move far out, as long as the power progression stays similar, but that will probably be rare

The real question is, are people willing to go far enough to actually fix the issues? Because being backward compatible with previous adventures is a major problem if you want to fix, y'know, monster design and skill rules/presentation. Both things which I think need major, perhaps complete, overhauls.

 

[teitan]

you did not address the question, or I would not need to ask it again… repeating the same vague stuff that got me to ask for a clarification in the first place is not addressing the question, but you do you

Not saying what I am asking for (which you call saying what I want) is the very definition of not answering…

I answered and you want me to say something else. I answered with how things trended in the past with adoption with 3.0 and 5e being outliers in adoption of a new edition. But yeah we are done here because what you want I’m not giving because I answered you. Bye.

 

[mamba]

Well, I was, and when I did, you responded with...

yes you were, at the time I did not realize you were so far off base that you took my reply to mean we are talking about WotC here. I thought you meant it was impossible to stray farther from the core than WotC is doing with their 2024 books and used those as proof for it

Obviously, 3PP can do whatever it wants. That's literally always been true and it feels weird to even need to mention it, like "the sun rises."

obviously they can, but not everything they could possibly do would be compatible with D&D monsters and adventures, would it? So this does not even begin to address the question

The real question is, are people willing to go far enough to actually fix the issues? Because being backward compatible with previous adventures is a major problem if you want to fix, y'know, monster design and skill rules/presentation. Both things which I think need major, perhaps complete, overhauls.

classes can look entirely different and still be compatible (in the sense of being of roughly comparable in power level).

Monsters can look different too, all you need to do is make sure the vanilla ones still fit into your design, ie you can add stuff like the villain actions from Flee Mortals, that just means the vanilla ones do not have any.
Of course this does limit your design space in that you cannot take anything away or drastically change it

As to addressing the issues, there are several 3pps, theoretically all with their own take, so some of them might address what you consider to be issues and others what I do. It’s not like everyone agrees on what the issues are

If you think pretty much everything needs a complete overhaul, then chances are the whole 5e compatibility approach is pointless for you, and you should look for a different baseline / game

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Well, I’d say exploration, dungeon crawling, hexcrawling, etc. are all nearly absent or completely absent from 5E whereas they were present in earlier editions, to varying degrees. I’d count those as fairly major aspects of the game. So 5E is the worst for those things. The feel of zero-to-hero is also a fairly major aspect of the game for a lot of people, and, as you say, it’s completely absent from 5E. Admittedly, this is also the case for 4E, so they’re tied for worst at that piece.

Neither those are true though. They may be absent from 5e D&D, but not 5e itself

 

[overgeeked]

Neither those are true though. They may be absent from 5e D&D, but not 5e itself

They are entirely or almost entirely absent from the core game and official products. That 3PPs have made books covering those aspects of play does not change that.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

They are entirely or almost entirely absent from the core game and official products. That 3PPs have made books covering those aspects of play does not change that.

There is nothing in 5e that prevents exploration, hex, and dudgeon crawls. You can in fact do those right out of the box (we have), but the official books do not give a lot of guidance on how to do them or how do them well. That doesn't mean those types of play are absent from the game though.