Best archer build, all material allowed

[Yunru]

Our group shoots at Monk-stunned foes. I'm sure you can find a way to set up advantage yourself

Remember, this guy doesn't need "range". Consider him a melee combatant, only with a "reach" of 120 ft.

If a monster appears in the distance and it's too dangerous for the monk to go there, obviously he shoots without advantage (and without -5/+10). On the other hand, doing any damage at that distance is still way better than what the swordguys can do...

Point is:

Ranged < Melee
Unless the rules actively limit and penalise ranged.

WotC have kept this ball in play ever since first edition, but this time, they've apparently forgotten about the need to actively repress ranged combat for melee to be a good minmax choice.

They've simply dropped the ball - I can count to six or seven changes between 5E and 3E that all remove useful checks on ranged.

I'm still not seeing. You've pointed out on of the (if not the) only ways to give advantage, and it relies upon another player. That doesn't count. If it did, might as well throw in every buff spell from an external source.

 

[CapnZapp]

For damage levels what do you guys think of using Arcane archer piercing arrow in a surprise attack with the assassin crit buff and sharpshooter -5 +10? Seems like a really solI'd surprise nova on multiple enemies.

The higher your base damage is, the less worth the GWM/SS mechanism is.

If, say, you're a drow assassin or sumthin' doing 8d6 plus 7d6 poison on a hit, all you want is to hit. You should never take a -5 under any circumstances (short of the extreme case where you'd hit even on a 1 without the penalty). The +10 is not worth the added risk of a miss, it isn't enough of an increase compared to losing all those sweet fifteen dice.

And more generally, taking the feat isn't as worth your while if you only do one attack per round.

The -5/+10 mechanism shines for characters that do many attacks that do relatively little damage. (Even rocking a greatsword with Strength 20 is considered "relatively little damage" for purposes of this discussion )

Not only is +10 a large percentage increase of your regular damage (say 1d12+5, where +10 is almost double damage), the real source of power is if you can do four or even more attacks, so that the +10 turns into +40. (This is my example, by the way. Four attacks that each are 1d6+5+10 ends up as 4d6+60)

Now we're talking!

 

[CapnZapp]

That doesn't count.

Oh yes you can bet it does count

 

[Yunru]

Oh yes you can bet it does count

Very well, in that case I propose a Fighter 11/Hunter 3/Assassin 6

It would be great, it generates it's own advantage turn 1, and the you merely need a Cleric to Bless you, a Feylock to Greater Invisibility you and a Wizard to Magic Weapon you

 

[Yunru]

Actually thematically I really enjoy the idea of a Hunter 5/Rogue X grappler build.

Put a guy on the ground, (sharp)shoot him in the face and next turn drag him next to one of his friends and do it again.

Quite MAD though.

 

[Yunru]

Also being technical, the Hunter's Volley is one attack with multiple attack rolls, so for each of those, you can technically take -5 to add +10 to the damage dealt to all of them. Five enemies? Five attack rolls at -5, +50 damage.

 

[CapnZapp]

Very well, in that case I propose a Fighter 11/Hunter 3/Assassin 6

It would be great, it generates it's own advantage turn 1, and the you merely need a Cleric to Bless you, a Feylock to Greater Invisibility you and a Wizard to Magic Weapon you

Sure, if your group finds that easy to set up, go for it.

Look, Yunru - optimization is like war and love: there are no rules If I hadn't seen myself the power of the Crossbow Expert Precision Attack Sharpshooter and how he can consistently shoot at AC 18 and still often do 60+ damage per round and this without jumping through hoops (that is, the rest of the party isn't working for the glory of the crossbowman; they're just doing what they do best. Setting up advantage benefits them too, after all) I wouldn't have brought it up.

But I have and so I do

For the purposes of this thread, however, I reiterate:

is there anything in the UA material that comes even close to this PHB-only build?

I'm afraid I think not (though I would love to be shown otherwise!). As to why, I would think it's generally because the UA material is strangely conservative and doesn't really give us any new mechanics.

 

[Yunru]

Well, technically there is. Just swap any if the Ranger levels in any of the above with OPUA Ranger.

 

[CapnZapp]

Also being technical, the Hunter's Volley is one attack with multiple attack rolls, so for each of those, you can technically take -5 to add +10 to the damage dealt to all of them. Five enemies? Five attack rolls at -5, +50 damage.

We haven't explored the Ranger class that many levels - my players doesn't seem to think the Ranger chassi can compete with the Fighter chassi: all you need to call yourself a ranger you get on the first three levels.

But sure, Hunter's Volley seems attractive. At least on the surface - who doesn't want to make five attacks?

The drawback is that you must spend your entire Attack on the Volley. Considering you can make four attacks at level 11 with your regular routine, you really need lots of enemies to make this worth your while. And how often do you see five or more monsters all within a 10 ft radius?

If your DM routinely sends massed hordes against you, sure. Personally, though, I probably wouldn't bother.

As for how it works with Sharpshooter, I couldn't say. I would certainly allow it myself, but I can easily see another DM arguing SS adds +10 to the "attack's damage", and not +50.

(Please don't start an argument with me on this, Yunru - I have already said I would allow it myself )

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, technically there is. Just swap any if the Ranger levels in any of the above with OPUA Ranger.

Absolutely right - as soon as the UA ranger becomes official and sees print, I'm confident my players won't look back at the PHB beastmaster ever again