Book of Exalted Deeds - Exalted feat question

[Nail]

I didn't even penalize him. I will always give my players ONE warning with any given character.

ONE.

And that's a good idea. After all, the player and the DM are two separate people; it's not surprising that they don't think exactly alike about quasi-moral issues.

Anyone playing/DMing an exalted PC might concider talking to the DM, and carefully going through the "general" list of things that are Evil(tm). For example, IMC, one of those things happens to be not burning the bodies of the dead.

I'm guessing that in this case, the rogue wanted to be Exalted ....but wasn't sure how that would interact with the Sneak Attack power of the rogue. I'd suggest (IMHO) that the sneak attack power is used in melee....rather than assassinations (killing in their sleep, killing them before they do anything Evil, etc.)

It's a tough path to follow...but it might lead to some very cool scenarios. After all, the "kill it and take its stuff" -thing has been done....well, to death.

 

[Trainz]

Yes Nail. In fact, the BoED goes as far as to define what is exalted for each core class. I couldn't find a definitive answer there, but other passages of the book were somewhat more clear.

I just wish they simply spent a few lines in the book to state "no killing of helpless critters, no matter it's alignment or intent". One phrase, which would have been much more useful than discussing the philosophies of purity ad nauseam.

 

[Nail]

One phrase, which would have been much more useful than discussing the philosophies of purity ad nauseam.

Amen.

 

[Deset Gled]

No one suggested that [waking up the gnolls and killing them in the surprise round]. That would be the same as killing them in their sleep.

I would suggest that. If you wake them up first, they're not helpless in any way, and could even retain their dex bonus to AC in the surprise round if they had Combat Reflexes. Doesn't sound defenseless to me. Does being exalted mean you're not allowed to use the surprise round in combat anymore?

 

[calypso15]

I would suggest that. If you wake them up first, they're not helpless in any way, and could even retain their dex bonus to AC in the surprise round if they had Combat Reflexes. Doesn't sound defenseless to me. Does being exalted mean you're not allowed to use the surprise round in combat anymore?

To me, the question was more whether you should be provoking/killing them at all. If you bust into a house with your sword drawn and there are 4 gnolls sitting around a table playing cards, is it evil to kill them, even though they're not helpless? Damn right it is.

Calypso

 

[Yig]

Guess it's also my fault for only reading the crunch part of the feat

I will be more careful in the future.

How much for a wand of Atonement ?

 

[Deset Gled]

...Is it evil to kill them, even though they're not helpless? Damn right it is.

Doesn't that make all exalted feats useless to any PC? And make a paladin completely unplayable? To me, that sounds more like the requirement for Vow of Nonviolence than for an exalted feat.

 

[calypso15]

Doesn't that make all exalted feats useless to any PC? And make a paladin completely unplayable? To me, that sounds more like the requirement for Vow of Nonviolence than for an exalted feat.

Vow of Nonviolence says that, even if they're attacking you, you don't harm them in any way.

I'm saying, you can't just go around killing things with no provocation and expect to be exalted. You're supposed to give them a chance to surrender and change their evil ways.

And, playing paladins is SUPPOSED to be more restrictive, they're goody-goodies!

Calypso

 

[Scharlata]

I would suggest that. If you wake them up first, they're not helpless in any way, and could even retain their dex bonus to AC in the surprise round if they had Combat Reflexes. Doesn't sound defenseless to me. Does being exalted mean you're not allowed to use the surprise round in combat anymore?

Hi!

The BoED has a chapter about mercy, being a good act. Mercilessness is not a good act - it's evil. If you show no mercy, you are evil. By the book.

Kind regards

 

[Deset Gled]

I'm saying, you can't just go around killing things with no provocation and expect to be exalted. You're supposed to give them a chance to surrender and change their evil ways.

The deaths of an untold number peasants and the looming threat of an entire town being overrun doesn't count as provocation? Stopping them was the point of the mission, after all. The gnolls have always had a chance to not do what they do and repent for it. It's the job of the an exalted character to accept surrender at all times, but not to stop and ask a villian a question about it every time they swing their swords. I don't think that being exalted should translate into making a player use bad tactics.

The BoED has a chapter about mercy, being a good act. Mercilessness is not a good act - it's evil. If you show no mercy, you are evil. By the book.

By that arguement, wouldn't it be a lot more merciful to kill the gnolls while they're sleeping and cannot feel the pain, rather than waking them up and causing them torment and anguish before they die?

By the way, this topic is aone that's been talked about here on the boards many times. The best example I know of from the archives is this one: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89392
Pretty much the same thing, but with a paladin instead of an exalted character.