D&D 5E Booming Blade seems a bit powerful

Fanaelialae

Legend
It's about the control, not the damage, though. The fact that it will do 12 more damage than their normal attack routine if the target moves, or only 6 damage less but forcing them to stop, is pretty nice.

We agree. Take a look at my first post on page one of this thread. There I said that Booming Blade's strength lies in its control aspect, not it's damage. :)

What you quoted above was a discussion specifically about damage comparisons (which I was using to try to demonstrate that Booming Blade's real benefit is not its damage).

That said, I don't feel that the movement restriction is unreasonable for a cantrip particularly since, rather than outright dropping the creature's movement to 0, it offers the DM a choice (don't move or else take damage).
 

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Xeviat

Hero
I think the concern is that the designers are clearly valuing "don't move" against "1d8 damage per tier", which puts the EKs damage above the base fighter.

But, I don't think this is a problem either. The EK needs a damage boost, as they don't get much damage from their spells compared to a Battlemaster's dice. So having a beefy cantrip is good for them.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
I think the concern is that the designers are clearly valuing "don't move" against "1d8 damage per tier", which puts the EKs damage above the base fighter.

I think what it comes down to is that you need something reasonable to incentivize the DM not to move the monster. Let's face it, if it were 1 damage per tier, it wouldn't even be a choice. Even 1d8 per tier isn't enormous when you consider the hp of many of the creatures at those tiers, but it is enough to give the DM pause. Particularly if he's triggering it multiple times.

In the end though, by it's very nature, that damage won't be triggered very often unless you've specifically built your character to exploit it (with the Mobile feat for example). Even then, it isn't that great unless the entire party uses the same tactics, because the monster will probably trigger it once to peel onto someone other than the BB-Mobile character, and that will be the end of it. Booming Blade is a lot like a melee Goading Attack; you're probably already adjacent to the target so it was probably going to attack you anyway. This just gives it a little more incentive to do so, bringing that probability closer to 100%.
 

Ganymede81

First Post
In the end though, by it's very nature, that damage won't be triggered very often unless you've specifically built your character to exploit it

I'm not so sure. Simply taking an attack of opportunity and walking away will serve the same purpose, and fighters are good at doing that.
 

Xeviat

Hero
My point is how would a cantrip that immobilized the target be priced? Compare "ray of frost" to "firebolt". But, with me looking at the EK, I am comparing a cantrip plus a class ability.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
I'm not so sure. Simply taking an attack of opportunity and walking away will serve the same purpose, and fighters are good at doing that.

That's somewhat true, but especially at higher levels that becomes less of an option. Consider a CR 9 Fire Giant, for example. At +11 to hit, and dealing 6d6+7 damage, that's not necessarily a great trade-off for an extra 4d8 damage. Granted, the Fire Giant won't always hit, but even 50/50 odds (roughly speaking) aren't that great in my book (especially once you factor in the risk of the odd crit). Plus, if you leave him unattended, that Fire Giant can just toss a hard hitting rock at your casters, which could disrupt their concentration.

Compare that with the Battlemaster's Goading Attack, which can be used with the same tactics or even at range. While it doesn't add as much damage on its own as BB, it also doesn't restrict the number of attacks a fighter can make. It significantly decreases the giant's chance to hit, and cuts the risk of a crit twenty-fold. Assuming proper terrain, a goading archer can easily make it so that the giant cannot attack anyone without disadvantage.

Given that the ideal outcome of an encounter is to overcome it with the least resource expenditure possible, Goading Attack is likely to be a better option than Booming Blade in many circumstances, at least in my opinion.

Frankly, walking away simply isn't a great choice for a tank is many situations. Between your opportunity attack and Booming Blade, you can likely guarantee that your target will remain focused on you (assuming no one else is in melee with it). If you walk away, it can just go after a softer, more opportune target. Admittedly, not every Booming Blade user will be a tank. However, if someone were to skirmish against one of my monsters using BB, I'd take the damage once to have the monster move to a less mobile target and that would be the end of it. An extra 4d8 damage once per encounter is nice, but not all that amazing at 17th level.

My point is how would a cantrip that immobilized the target be priced? Compare "ray of frost" to "firebolt". But, with me looking at the EK, I am comparing a cantrip plus a class ability.

Admittedly, I don't think that a cantrip should ever immobilize a target outright. IIRC, an early playtest version of Ray of Frost did that and it was highly exploitable. That said, offering the choice between immobilization and damage shouldn't be priced nearly as highly, in my opinion, because the DM can choose the better option based on circumstance. In the case of the Fire Giant, the DM chooses to throw a rock at the wizard rather than take the damage. In the case of a wyvern, he takes the damage and gets to make all his attacks at the target of his choosing.

Frankly, I wish that more spells offered this type of choice. I think it makes things more interesting and dynamic.
 


Of course if a party were designed around this spell, utilizing the Mobility feat (for example) so that no one is ever in melee with the target of BB, then I would consider that combination OP. But it probably still wouldn't compare to a party specialized in the GWF/SS feats that casts Bless in every encounter.

You could probably take out the underlined part and it would still make sense.

(Discounting that Poison Spray is terrible and I've never seen anyone consider it worth taking.)

One of my players took it for her drow wizard since it didn't require an attack roll and so didn't care about Sunlight Sensitivity.

It got a good amount of use, but not as much use as the typical ranged attack cantrip.
 


Moctzal

First Post
How would requiring Concentration affect the use of BB?

It would make it worse.

But, it doesn't need to be worse.

Is it more powerful than some other options, for some classes/builds? Yes. That makes it a good spell.

Is it more powerful for every class, or any build, or even a majority of either? No. That makes it a healthy spell.

Booming Blade isn't even more powerful than Greenflame Blade in many situations.
 

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