God didn't hate conformity. he was very happy till they tried to build a tower to heaven that mortals could use to go visit before they died. God divided them so they couldn't cooperate and get there. He punished them for Hubris not because he hated conformity. The bible is actually all about conformity. Follow the rules or you get left out or struck down. (new testament vs old testament)
D&D 5E Boon Ideas for a God of Maintaining Cultural Norms and Resistance to Change
Yaarel
He Mage
The Hebrew wording emphasizes the conformity. "One lip" and "one speakings". (The phrase one speakings is odd. Also understandable as only "some speakings", with few or zero said about anything else.)
Biblical version of God cares about compassion and justice, and doesnt care about "hubris".
The Greek philosophers care about hubris. The Romans care about hubris.
Conformity is the opposite of compassion.
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No conformity is not the opposite of Compassion. Indifference or uncaring is the opposite of compassion. The Bible does emphasize that Group think or one speakings took over the people. But they got slapped down for trying to build a tower to heaven when they fell into that group think. The Group think infected everyone and the solution was to divide them and make a bunch of different groups that had to learn to think without the original group. Doesn't change why it happened. The Old Testament God cared about people conforming to his will and nothing else. I think you are confusing Old Testament with New Testament after the son convinced him compassion was a better play.
Yaarel
He Mage
Compassion is feeling love for someone who is unlike oneself, who one doesnt fully understand.
Otherwise, it is just selfishness. Loving a mirror.
Specifically, compassion is sharing ones own power with someone else. This power might wealth, time, emotional connection, knowledge, whatever.
Compassion requires going beyond ones self or ones assumptions.
Yeah.
Yeah. I get the sense, if God allowed the conformity to entrench in that extreme way, it would become impossible for humans to escape from that malignant conformity. Like the novel, 1984, with Big Brother achieving irreversible victory. Re the Tower, God literally forbade it.
This is destruction of the conformity, this vulnerability of the "ego", is also what the philosophy of Existentialism leans into, as well as Post-Modernism. As well as Buddhism.
I agree the Tower is a trigger. But the tower is also the effort to entrench conformity.
Avraham and Moshe both fought with God. Avraham hinted God was unethical, and Moshe flat out said God was being foolish. God rewarded them for challenging God for the sake of ethics and compassion.
Heh, I think you are unfamiliar with how other traditions read the Hebrew Bible.
Vaalingrade
Legend
Limited use Command only to stop actions that fall outside of social norms or the user's personal preferences.
Yaarel
He Mage
Anyway the point of the Tower of Babel excursion is to get a sense of the archetype of conformity.
• Everyone must agree
• Everyone must participate
• Everyone must do the same thing − while fitting within the ones place in the project
I guess this is what the D&D Modrons are about?
• Everyone must agree
• Everyone must participate
• Everyone must do the same thing − while fitting within the ones place in the project
I guess this is what the D&D Modrons are about?
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well if we are talking the hebrew bible we are talking apples vs oranges and since the King James version was codified impossible to square with each other.
Mod Note:
We’ve probably reached the limit of how helpful the biblical story of the Tower of Babel can be to inform the discussion at this point.
We’ve probably reached the limit of how helpful the biblical story of the Tower of Babel can be to inform the discussion at this point.
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