D&D 3E/3.5 BoVD 3.5e: Hellbound!
- Thread starter Nifft
- Start date
Dog Moon
Adventurer
Okay, I do like the Hellbound PrC. Yeah I know, finally gotten around to reading it. It looks cool, though honestly without knowing enough about the Binder, I cannot really say how balanced it is or not. The Fiendish Teleportation thing does seem sort of buff, especially added on with the decent powerful abilities of the Visages and the Plane Shift. It is a very useful ability.
Personally, I think it would be awesome to have an expanded list consisting of enough Demons and Devils to be able to have a 'Demon binder' and 'Devil binder' [as well as adding enough Yugoloths to make a 'Loth Binder, though I don't think any of them are OGC], but I understand how that would be a lot of work.
One thing that I think would be cool would be to somehow make it so that non-Binders could also take this PrC, though I'm unsure how feasible an idea that would be [I mean beyond modifying the prereqs a little]. They would obviously be a little weaker than full-out Binders, but I'm sure some classes could benefit from these abilities as well.
Personally, I think it would be awesome to have an expanded list consisting of enough Demons and Devils to be able to have a 'Demon binder' and 'Devil binder' [as well as adding enough Yugoloths to make a 'Loth Binder, though I don't think any of them are OGC], but I understand how that would be a lot of work.
One thing that I think would be cool would be to somehow make it so that non-Binders could also take this PrC, though I'm unsure how feasible an idea that would be [I mean beyond modifying the prereqs a little]. They would obviously be a little weaker than full-out Binders, but I'm sure some classes could benefit from these abilities as well.
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Hey, Nifft! It has been a while, I hope you are okay.
Any more vile goodness left?
Any more vile goodness left?
green slime
First Post
I'll be waiting with baited breath to see your take on the Shadowcaster, Nifft. I always like what you put out. I might not agree 100% with everything, but close enough! I recently started tinkering in my mind with the shadowcaster myself... haven't reached any awe-inspiring decisions yet, there are a lot of other commitments in life preventing me spending the time to really get my teeth into the problem.
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
Sweet, I was just about to try and dig up this thread - I have used one or two of the classes
and I keep looking at the new vile feats and thinking - Niffts are better. Vile brand and Demonic Thrall both see regular use in my games.
(although I altered Vile Brand so that if a critical success or failure is rolled on the second attempt, the confirmation roll is an automatic 1 ... because evil hates you, too.
I cant really comment on the fiend binder, I borrowed ToM and liked the binders best, but don't have it on have it on hand.
The Expulsion Incarnate feat seems very powerful - perhaps limiting it to 1 round per binder (caster) level? from what I hear Expel Vestiage is really important for binders anyway.
and I keep looking at the new vile feats and thinking - Niffts are better. Vile brand and Demonic Thrall both see regular use in my games.
(although I altered Vile Brand so that if a critical success or failure is rolled on the second attempt, the confirmation roll is an automatic 1 ... because evil hates you, too.
I cant really comment on the fiend binder, I borrowed ToM and liked the binders best, but don't have it on have it on hand.
The Expulsion Incarnate feat seems very powerful - perhaps limiting it to 1 round per binder (caster) level? from what I hear Expel Vestiage is really important for binders anyway.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Evilhalfling said:
That's true, but Expel Vestige is important outside of combat. So that's how I "priced" the Incarnate version. Sure, you can use it in a fight, but then you're down one Vestige and you can't recover it during the fight (well, you can, but it takes one full minute to bind a Vestige). Sure, there's another feat to circumvent that (once per day), but whatever -- if you spend the feats, you should get the goodies.
Two feats for getting a benefit that any 15th level Cleric or Wizard would have anyway (via one of the planar ally or planar binding spells)? Balanced, perhaps even weak. Still, it struck me as a cool image, and perhaps the low marginal cost for each Fiend is a balancing factor to its relative weakness vs. the Cleric or Wizard alternative.
The "minute per level" thing made me think it would be useful for about 3 combats, fewer if you take the time to re-bind a replacement, which is about right.
Does that make sense? Or do you have a devilish application that utterly breaks the game?
Thanks, -- N
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
hmm - 15th I must have missed guessed the entry requirements I was seeing a barbazu at 7th and a Vrock at 11th. This is without the hefty xp and gold cost of a Planar Ally - Also the fact that they hung around afterward, means that if the Binder is good enough at negotiation he can have a squad of them hanging around for weeks (or whatever he can get) as a bodyguard.
It was the hanging around that could be subject to abuse - the only other way to accomplish this is using gate. (I missed the original 1 minute/lvl constraint, that seems reasonable enough)
It was the hanging around that could be subject to abuse - the only other way to accomplish this is using gate. (I missed the original 1 minute/lvl constraint, that seems reasonable enough)
I'm subscribin' ta dis here thread!
