Breaking Bounded Accuracy: Proposed Fix

[dave2008]

If anything is to avoid it is +x shield and armor.

I am aware, as I mentioned in the OP that is my current solution.

 

[Oofta]

Did you read the OP? I said that is my current solution, but that I am looking for a different option. I also clarified in the OP that it is not broken, but "bent" and I want an adjustment. I've been playing 5e since it came out, so I know how to make the encounters that challenge my group. I am looking for a different solution.

My alternative is that if you give out magic items don't hand out items that skew the numbers too much. Sorry if that alternative doesn't work for you, but if you've already come to a conclusion, why ask?

 

[dave2008]

It isn't broken, it just doesn't fit in the dynamic of the game you are utilizing.

In various different games with different groups of players I cater to different styles. With one type of style if they DO NOT have these types of bonuses they will die...point blank. I can kill a level 20 party of 5 members with 8 Hill Giants (a CR FAR below what is typical) simply with a few tweaks to items that focus on the players weak saves and using smart tactics if the group isn't composed of really good players.

On the otherhand, I can have that same bunch of Hill Giants killed by a party of 4 fifth level characters who have no magic items simply by playing a straightforward combat if the players use good tactics.

It's not necessarily about the CR and balance in that way, but HOW you DM and play the game and cater to different playstyles.

To be clear I never said anything about CR or balance or tactics or challenging my players. That is not the issue.

To be honest, I am not looking for other options to solve the issue. I already know how to solve the issue by removing or banning or increasing tactics or increasing encounter and/or monster strength. I am really just looking to see if there is some problems with my proposed option that I am not aware of.

 

[dave2008]

My alternative is that if you give out magic items don't hand out items that skew the numbers too much. Sorry if that alternative doesn't work for you, but if you've already come to a conclusion, why ask?

That solution does work for me, it is what I am doing now. But I am looking for another option. Also, I haven't come to a conclusion. As I stated in the OP: "I can bet this breaks something else, but I am not sure what. Any thoughts?"

So, I am curious if my proposed solution messes with something else in the game's mechanics that I am not thinking of.

 

[aco175]

I tend to give out less + weapons and even less + armor. I do give out +0 weapons that have some other cool powers or can cast minor spells 1/rest or such. I also tend to have monsters target the casters once I notice that they are concentrating on keeping spells from failing. I only do this with the smarter monsters and not the monsters like skeletons and elementals to keep the players from calling foul.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Yes, that could be a solution. But I was also trying to find a solution without using the ban hammer. I am also looking for a solution that would work for spells I don't know about or future spells (or magic items) that do similar things.

The other obvious solution would be to change what +X items do. For example, under my own set of house rules, +X weapons only deal extra damage, and +X armor increases your DR; but I also converted armor into DR as baseline, so it might be kind of weird outside of that context.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I vote we go hijack the "do you find this annoying" thread and change it to be about people telling you that your ideas are unnecessary because the problem you are trying to solve is not a problem (for them). Yeah, that's annoying.

 

[GreyLord]

That solution does work for me, it is what I am doing now. But I am looking for another option. Also, I haven't come to a conclusion. As I stated in the OP: "I can bet this breaks something else, but I am not sure what. Any thoughts?"

So, I am curious if my proposed solution messes with something else in the game's mechanics that I am not thinking of.

The thing is, I didn't see it was broken in the first place. HOWEVER, with that in mind, I don't see that your option breaks anything. If it works for the group, go with it. If anything, saves are already a little broken (if we are going for things that I might consider a tad broken) at higher levels in relation to other things (for example, spell saves) so leaving that for bless is probably a good idea.

Combat being focused on, if you leave the bonus to hit with the weapon but bless doesn't add anything (or, perhaps it's simply the one that gives the highest bonus and that's it...which is how many play it already in some circles), the game is designed to be perfectly played that way (or even played where players have NO bonuses whatsoever even).

I don't see it breaking anything.

 

[5ekyu]

I would pass then on playing a bard in your game.

You are basically then as GM saying that you **will not** stop or reduce the bonus items you plan to introduce *and* that de facto every new one you add becomes another "bardic inspiration wont help you" finger in my character's essential class feature.

Thanks for "fixing" my bard, who will now curl up on the TV and sleep a lot.

Moving past the humor, you are really hitting any buff driven character type and driving them out of the market. This will shift the focus to more and more aggressive builds, excluding others.

If that is your intent, great for you.

But that wasn't a stated goal in your OP so, I am unclear. You goal seemed to be to weaken class abilities of a given type to preserve whatever you feel bounded accuracy is.

Personally, I doubt the bounded accuracy lobby will be as vocal as anyone who messes up and brings a bard into that game.

 

[S'mon]

Here is my proposed solution: magic doesn't stack. Whatever magic gives you a bonus to a roll (not disadvantage or advantage) cannot stake with another type of magic that gives you a bonus to the same roll.

I think it'll work ok. It will tend to hurt PCs and help monsters, especially at higher level. In particular it will make larger PC groups relatively less powerful and lessen the quadratic buff effect.

Personally I agree with others that stacking bonuses usually isn't really an issue in 5e because of the Concentration mechanic and because powerful monsters get very high to-hit bonuses, and often do enormous damage on a critical hit.

In my Saturday game the dwarven forgepriest Cleric-8 has AC 25 (+1 plate, +2 shield, +1 forge bonus, +1 ring or cloak bonus) so most foes are only hitting on a 20, maybe an 18. He still got taken to single digit hp by a single crit from a wraith.