D&D 5E Build Help > Paladin Feats/ASIs & Race

[Vitor Bastos]

Guys,


Im finishing up my Paladin Vengeance Build, I just need some help picking my Race (Variant Human or Half-Elf) and Feats/ASIs (PAM, GWM, Sentinel).
Important: The campaign will end around level 10. So I need to figure out what I should take on levels 1,4 and 8.


My Paladin will take Oath of Vengeance. He will have a Soldier background. The main attribute will be STR.
Fighting Style will be Great Weapon Fighting, because my DM will allow rerolls on Smites.
We are gonna use Standard Array (15-14-13-12-10-8).
The 3 Feats that I find interesting to get are Polearm Master, Great Weapon Fighting and/or Sentinel.


Race: ?


At Level 1: Feat or ASI?
At Level 4: Feat or ASI?
At Level 8: Feat or ASI?


Str: ?
Dex: ?
Con: ?
Int: ?
Wis: ?
Cha: ?


What do you guys suggest and why?

 

[smbakeresq]

Many things you can do

Heavy Armor Master at level 1 is GREAT. You shave off so much damage over your career its well worth it, and at low levels is a life saver. You don't use a shield so this acts as some defense. This allows you to put 15 in Strength, and then get to 16, 14 in CON and 13 in CHR, and then boost both of those with Human Variant. CON you are setting up for Resilient CON later on, for that bonus to CON saves and concentration checks

Pole Arm Master is VG also, it give you a bonus action. However, you will be using your bonus actions for some other stuff also, like Wrathful Smite, Thunderous Smite (early levels) and a few other things. Later on, when using first level spells for Divine smites as opposed to other things Pole Arm Master gets better and gives you another chance to get a Divine Smite in. Pole arm gives you reach also. This is VG for VENGENCE since the ability works on the bonus action attacks also.

Great Weapon Master gives you a bonus attack in the right situations. Its better for Paladins since you can trigger it more often, if Divine smite kills something then it will trigger. If you take this and want to use PAM then I wouldn't take Heavy Armor Mastery.


You only have so much room for feats. You need 2 ABI to get STR to 20, at least 1 to get CHR to 16, although you want more, so you have 1-2 to fill out PC, 3 if you can live with 16 CHR and take Human Variant. So think of combos you want.

 

[Vitor Bastos]

Heavy Armor Master at level 1 is GREAT. You shave off so much damage over your career its well worth it, and at low levels is a life saver. You don't use a shield so this acts as some defense.

Pole Arm Master is VG also, it give you a bonus action. However, you will be using your bonus actions for some other stuff also, like Wrathful Smite, Thunderous Smite (early levels) and a few other things. Later on, when using first level spells for Divine smites as opposed to other things Pole Arm Master gets better and gives you another chance to get a Divine Smite in. Pole arm gives you reach also.

Great Weapon Master gives you a bonus attack in the right situations. Its better for Paladins since you can trigger it more often, if Divine smite kills something then it will trigger.


Human variant for the bonus feat, then Heavy Armor master using bonus action smite spells, then at 4th level Pole Arm Master for the reach and bonus attacks with Halberd, the Great Weapon Mastery.

I see. But idk, I feel like I need to pick more of those ofensive feats.. Like PAM+Sentinel combo

 

[smbakeresq]

Sentinel isn't offensive, you can only use it if your DM lets you i.e. takes actions that trigger it. As go up in levels reach becomes a bigger issue. PAM you can just use all the time, whenever you have bonus action. PAM conflicts with GWM bonus attacks, so sometimes it can et wasted.

PAM + Great Weapon Mastery is offensive and the core of the Vengeance build. The bonus action attacks work with Vengeance ability and also with the -5/+10 trade off. In that case you can take both right away and then fill in for most fun. You need to have someone casting bless also.

Human Bonus PAM

4th GWM

8th STR

12 CHR

16 CHR

19 STR


Start with STR 15 and put a bonus there, then 14 CON and 13 CHR and then a bonus there.

 

[Vitor Bastos]

PAM conflicts with GWM bonus attacks, so sometimes it can et wasted.

You need to have someone casting bless also.

I think you meant PAM conflicts with Sentinel bonus atks, right?

I dont know if I will be able to have someone blessing me, cause my party so far is really bad composition: Paladin (me), monk, ranger, rogue and possibly another fighter. lol no healers so far, unless someone change their mind. Its a newbie table, you know..

 

[smbakeresq]

PAM and Great Weapon Master all use your bonus action.

With that group, I would go Sword and board so you can be the one to cast bless etc. This way you have a better shot at keeping bless up, which with group will be super effective. You can just tank and let the others flow around you. I am playing a Crown sword and board with shield master, I use the bonus action to prone them and then the group eliminates them with all the attacks with advantage. Your group is EVEN MORE optimized for that, Monk, Rogue and YOU can all send it in with advantage on every prone creature. Ranger too if he is in melee. You casting bless and keeping it up is IMMENSE with that group, +d4 to hit with any three of your party will just bury enemies. Crown can also help your groups with the emergency heal feature and they cant run away feature. Keeping them around means your group can beat on them.

You can also use Pole arm to stay at range and let others take a few hits. With that group damage wont be an issue, so you can get PAM and Sentinel in that case, that gives you a bonus action (PAM attack) and a reaction (Sentinel) stuff. With a Polearm you can still keep that bless up, and that bless spell will just be super effective for you.

The group will count on you to be a healer, so Aura of Life is in your future. If you wish, a level of Life Cleric for +2 +1/level to all healing spells is quietly effective, and you get a few cleric spells also. Aura of Life is super effective then, healing 70-170 over 10 rounds. Inspiring leader might good also, as your bonus feat, that's a lot of THP for each rest with your large group since its up to 6 people.

You also have a lot of saves to cover, so you need to get the CHR up. Devotion helps with that anti-charm feature added to your auras.

One of the reasons I went Crown with a shield is I have a sort of soft, slow group (Wizard and Bard each with level of cleric and a monk) so I will need the feats inspiring leader and Resilient (CON) to keep buffs up and Shield Guardians up, so I only have room for one other feat, and shield master is good by itself.

You might have to take on the role of the glue that holds the party together and directs them where they should be. Embrace the leadership role!

 

[Asgorath]

If you're stopping around level 10, then it's really hard to beat a Variant Human (going from 2 to 3 ASIs is huge). I'd probably recommend Resilient (Con) over Sentinel though, as that will allow you to more reliably use Haste starting at level 9. The Paladin guide's polearm build has Str/Cha of 16 until level 12, so given how feat-heavy the polearm build is you might be better to just stick with a GWM build and sneak in a +2 Str at level 8.

15, 15, 13, 10, 10, 8

Level 1: Str+1, Cha+1, Great Weapon Master
Level 4: Resilient (Con)
Level 8: Str+2

That gives you Str 18, Cha 16, Con 14 at level 8-11 with a 2+3+4=+9 Con save at level 9, which is enough for auto-save at DC10 (which is what you want).

 

[AmerginLiath]

Any idea yet on what the rest of the party is going to be? If the question is over an early focus on offense vs defense in combat optimization, it’s probably matters if you’ve got a fighter or barbarian next to you or if everyone else in the party is a wizard or rogue.

 

[CTurbo]

If you're starting at level 1, and you really only care about damage, just go vhuman and start 16 str, 14 Con, and 14 Char and take PAM, GWM, and the Sentinel in that order. You'll probably end up using all of your spell slots to spam smite. You're only going to be mediocre at being an actual Paladin though.

If you're starting level 4 of higher, Half-Elf is superior.

I prefer having more well rounded builds. A Paladin with no feats will still be great at damage. I propose an in-between

Start vhuman and take Heavy Armor Mastery at level 1 and you could start with 16 str, 14 Con, and 16 Char. Take PAM at level 4 and +2 Str at level 8. You have offense AND more staying power. I've found Paladins to be highly targeted and I would rather boost their defense than boost their offense. A Paladin on it's back is of no use to the party.