Building a character is like designing a magic deck...

[Sadrik]

Perhaps simply scaling back a bit and not perusing the WOTC optimization boards so much might be in order.

Never been there. But I think that the fact that their even is an optimization board spells trouble in my book.

I've played with a lot of players over the past few years and yup, you can break the system, but, if you ACTUALLY role play your character and take PrC's and whatnot that fit in the setting rather than whatever you can randomly jam together, then you're gold.

I generally write the longest and most in depth story and often am one of the players who inputs the most on role-playing, strategy, tactics and other game aspects- when i am not DM. So in short- I actually do role-play my character. A lot of people think it is one or the other; its not. Ive seen bad character builders and role players most commonly. And I have seen the opposite good in both categories. It's not a teeter toter if good in one bad in another.

 

[Hussar]

The point is Sadrik, you're still ramming together classes and PrC's from multiple sources which do not particularly mechanically fit in the setting you are in. PrC's from sourcebooks of different campaign settings are balanced differently.

 

[Warren Okuma]

Thoughts?

Idle thought. Put feats on index cards and then lay them out on the floor.

 

[Aaron L]

I've never played Magic, and consequently never built a deck, but I gather that you are referring to building a character out of the best combination of the options available to you. Which I think is great, because I love being able to make a character exactly the way I want him to be, but I see it carried way to far in some places (all online, I've never experienced it in any actual game I've ever played in) where people talk about "optimum builds" and the like, which really turns me off. I love having the ability to customize a character to match the concepts I create. Optimization is a distant second to character concept, for me (and everyone I play with) but optimization is fairly important to us, as we believe that anyone who adventures (or goes hero-ing) professionally is going to learn the best combination of skills and talents for the job.

 

[doktorziplok]

... but I gather that you are referring to building a character out of the best combination of the options available to you. Which I think is great, because I love being able to make a character exactly the way I want him to be...

and you can't using a more strict* class/level system like castles & crusades, od&d, or ad&d? i've never had a problem. in fact, my characters built under other systems are invariably more memorable and "custom" if for no other reason than it forces me to develop a personality for the character.

too many choices can make you sad.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

One thing I find that helps prevent a lot of crazy optimal builds is starting the campaign at first level, and strictly controlling the addition of non-core items. No warblade, jade phoenix mage, or shocktrooper, using Sadrik's example. Also, there are a lot of builds that won't really be enjoyable in the middle levels while you're waiting for the piece that makes the combo work, so people get steered into maintaining optimization and survivability throughout the character's career, and the ramp-up in power can be managed instead of an issue at the get-go.

As for role-playing, a well-crafted history does not a character make. How did the history impact the character's personality and development? Is there a logical transition from one career path to another? Why does the prestige class even exist? Another reason I like starting characters out at first level is that they don't have a big history yet; they can make it as they go along. I want personalities, quirks, and the sort of proclivities explaining not only why the character drinks milk instead of mead, but would rather take another level of cleric instead of fighter or even Radiant Servant of Pelor.

Depth and optimization can walk hand in hand, but they don't have to.

 

[Aaron L]

and you can't using a more strict* class/level system like castles & crusades, od&d, or ad&d? i've never had a problem. in fact, my characters built under other systems are invariably more memorable and "custom" if for no other reason than it forces me to develop a personality for the character.

too many choices can make you sad.

No, you can't. When the only thing differentiating your Fighter from every other Fighter is their gear and how you roleplay them, that is a distinct lack in the game system. I want to have game mechanics to back up my roleplaying choices and character concepts. I want to be able to say "I am a sword master" and have some mechanics to back it up, rather than being mechanically exactly the same as every other Fighter out there.

If having a lack of mechanical options is the only thing "forcing" you to develop a unique personality for your characters, then I don't know what to tell you. With 3E I start with a personality and find the feats and skill and choices that fit and add to that personality and concept, whereas before all I could do was have a concept and resign myself to the fact that the game mechanics weren't going to be any different no matter what I wanted my character to be.

 

[S'mon]

The analogy isn't perfect, but clearly people do seek to 'build' 'optimised' characters these days; and splat books seem intended to be fairly analogous to CCG booster packs. I think there are similar elements in WoTC's marketing strategy although the two processes are not inherently very similar.

 

[RichGreen]

Hi,

It's not a bad analogy for the way some people approach character building, but I don't really play like that. Of course, that might be why I quit playing Magic around the time of Mirage and sold all my cards

Cheers


Richard

 

[Hussar]

and you can't using a more strict* class/level system like castles & crusades, od&d, or ad&d? i've never had a problem. in fact, my characters built under other systems are invariably more memorable and "custom" if for no other reason than it forces me to develop a personality for the character.

too many choices can make you sad.

So, how do I make a Dwarven wizard in AD&D?