D&D 4E Burning Wheel-style Artha and Instincts/Beliefs in 4E?

[Pale Jackal]

Burning Wheel has a nifty system involving Instincts and Beliefs, and you're rewarded with Artha points for doing certain things, with said Artha points basically giving you a bonus to a roll.

An instinct is something that your character is assumed to do, but won't do if it'd get him in trouble. However, if a player follows through with an instinct and it gets him in trouble, he gets a Fate point.

Following your character's beliefs also results in rewards. You can get Fate and Persona points. Technically, I think you get a Persona point for completing a belief, but I'd dole one out whenever significant/risky progress is made.

Finally, a Deeds point is when you do something epic. The example listed in the book is: overthrow a tyranny, and instead of taking power for yourself, give power to the appropriate group.

So I was thinking how to convert the Burning Wheel style benefits into appropriate 4E benefits. My tentative ideas are:

Fate Point: You may regain a used Encounter Power, or add +5 to a non-combat roll after the fact.

Persona Point: You may regain a used Daily Power, or add a +20 to a non-combat roll after the fact.

Deeds Point: I'm not really sure, one idea is that you regain all your Encounter Attack Powers, a Daily Power, and regain all your HP. Alternately, you simply beat a skill challenge.

 

[keterys]

So, I'm all for this in concept but I think your bonuses might be a bit large. +5 to a roll after the fact is immense, and +20 is I suppose 'Well, my 8 Dex fighter in full plate and shield will just go ahead and tightrope walk across, while doing cartwheels' Maybe I'm misunderstanding how often these would come up, but it's probably fair to say...

Fate: Players will often get one of these per session
Persona: How often? Once per character every couple adventures?
Deed: Once per character per tier?

So, for example, if you have five characters and take 2 sessions per level and 2 levels per adventure, every four sessions someone can spend a Deed point, every session someone can spend a Persona point, and every session _everyone_ can spend a fate point.

 

[Pale Jackal]

You might be right, also, your Fate/Persona/Deeds per session guidelines have a nice layering to them, though in practice, I think I'd dole out Fate/Persona less than you theorized, and Deeds more often. Though I might be biased since I'm thinking of handing out a Deeds point if they choose to make the city-state and the surrounding region safe. They've been adventuring in the area for a while, almost abandoned the region after a bad decision which angered the local prince, and they might not even choose to tie up all the loose ends that they've been introduced to.

Fate: I was thinking roughly a couple points per party per session. A session being 4 combats.

Persona: No more than one point to a single character every two sessions, I'd hazard. Maybe slightly more, possibly less.

Deed: Not a bad definition, though I think I want to dole Deeds points out more often than that, since I'm going to try to keep this campaign from going too much beyond the Heroic tier (level 12 or 13.)

So, I'm all for this in concept but I think your bonuses might be a bit large. +5 to a roll after the fact is immense, and +20 is I suppose 'Well, my 8 Dex fighter in full plate and shield will just go ahead and tightrope walk across, while doing cartwheels' Maybe I'm misunderstanding how often these would come up, but it's probably fair to say...

An Artha point can be spent once per encounter.

Fate: Encounter power or a +5 to any non-combat roll? (Before the roll.)

Persona: Daily power or a +5 to any non-combat roll after the roll?

Deeds: Regain an Encounter power, a Daily power, and all of your HP. Automatically succeed on any non-combat roll or combat feat, within cinematic reason. (Not too mechanical, but good enough, possibly.)

 

[Apeiron]

This is a fantastic idea.... i say that mostly because i was planning on doing this. i love BITS from BW, but didn't care much for the rest of the game. Porting them to 4E is the best of both worlds to me.

Yeah, the numbers/specifics need tweaking. A +4 bonus would be more modest and be meaningful.

Some options:
Rerolls (after the fact)
Roll Xd20, keep the best, where X is the number of points you spent
+2X where X is points spent (before roll)
+X where X is point spent (after roll)
Use the points as Action Points/Healing Surges
Trade Points for XP
Or better yet, use the points instead of XP

 

[Pale Jackal]

Yeah, the numbers/specifics need tweaking. A +4 bonus would be more modest and be meaningful.

Perhaps, though I also want to make sure that the non-combat uses aren't viewed as significantly less potent, and I do like the idea of regaining encounter powers and such. Seems more fun than just a bonus to a combat roll.

As for the other options, I kind of like them. For example, allowing Fate/Encounter to be +Xd20 before the roll is interesting, but then that would probably require Persona/Daily Artha to be changed.

Maybe I'll just go with the +4.

Trade Points for XP
Or better yet, use the points instead of XP

Personally, I tend to ignore XP and level the party when it seems appropriate.

 

[keterys]

Your +5 before/after sounds pretty good. The automatic success after the roll, I'd suggest. (could even make it +1 success in a skill challenge, too) Actually... have it remove all failures in a skill challenge too

 

[Apeiron]

Perhaps, though I also want to make sure that the non-combat uses aren't viewed as significantly less potent, and I do like the idea of regaining encounter powers and such. Seems more fun than just a bonus to a combat roll.

As for the other options, I kind of like them. For example, allowing Fate/Encounter to be +Xd20 before the roll is interesting, but then that would probably require Persona/Daily Artha to be changed.

Maybe I'll just go with the +4.

Personally, I tend to ignore XP and level the party when it seems appropriate.

True, flat +s might be boring if that's all you get. Maybe there could be a recharge exchange rate... one point for an Encounter, two for a daily. Gotta be careful with the dailies... those are the big guns. This deserves play testing.

As for leveling, if i were running a game, i'd use my Grand Unified Field Theory of Surges, Milestones, Action Points and XP. i call it Cents. Each level costs 100 Cents (perCENT). i think BITS and Cents would work beautifully together.