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But what if I LIKE Anime/Video-game tropes in my D&D?
- Thread starter Remathilis
- Start date
WayneLigon
Adventurer
RyukenAngel said:
The top pic is from Witch Hunter Robin and the bottom one is, I think, from Tsubasa: Resevoir Chronicles.
Mourn -
It is quite true, many of my group are warhammer players and a great many of our minis that saw use were drafted from warhammer armies. Encounter appropriate minis have to located in their case, be pulled from case, placed on battle mat, moved every turn, eventually cleared and returned to case. Did it take 10 minutes every encounter to fetch minis and set up? Probably not, but I'd be willing to bet it took close to five (and felt like 15), and that was five to many for us. We came to play D&D, not to play warhammer. If we wanted to do the minis thing... well, we'd play warhammer.
YMMV, of course.
It is quite true, many of my group are warhammer players and a great many of our minis that saw use were drafted from warhammer armies. Encounter appropriate minis have to located in their case, be pulled from case, placed on battle mat, moved every turn, eventually cleared and returned to case. Did it take 10 minutes every encounter to fetch minis and set up? Probably not, but I'd be willing to bet it took close to five (and felt like 15), and that was five to many for us. We came to play D&D, not to play warhammer. If we wanted to do the minis thing... well, we'd play warhammer.
YMMV, of course.
Rechan said:
When people misrepresent preview materials to make hyperbolic statements about the upcoming edition, that puts them in the camp of 4e haters. So my argument stands. The designers have never said that wizards were limited to evocation. That is a consistent piece of misrepresentation that appears over and over again on this forum, as well as the WotC forums. Limiting the most powerful of the other effects to different classes does not mean that wizards are nothing more than evokers. The fact that non-evocation spells have been mentioned by the designers as powers available to wizards flies in the face of any such assertions making them (de facto) incorrect.
When posters repeat inaccurate information ad nauseam, especially once it has been contradicted by posts by the designers, there must be some reason for it. I won't attempt to describe their motivations, even if I think they are obvious.
I've seen many of the posts you're referring to. What I would like to know is what video-games contain the abilities these posters have a problem with? How are per-encounter abilties video-gamesque? What video game uses them? Video games, especially the much maligned WoW, seem to use a per-minute (or other time based) refresh rate.
How does a dragon using salient abilities instead of casting spells make the game more video-gamey? Is it like a video game when demons and devils use spell-like abilities? or is this just a rule that applies to dragons?
It seems to me that those who don't like the ideas in 4e use the terms anime and video game as attempt to disparage the new system without bothering to address the actual issues. These are charged terms in some circles that serve to stifle honest debate instead of adding to it.
The Little Raven
First Post
Rallek said:
Sounds like you guys are slow at setup. That's unfortunate.
Miniatures in D&D predate the existence of Warhammer. The first Monster Manual lists speed in inches as the primary measurement, for use with miniatures. Suggesting that miniatures have no place in D&D when D&D evolved out of a miniature wargame is silly.
Mourn -
Perhaps we are slow at setup, or perhaps looking through several cases worth of the relevant warhammer army for the "correct" minis takes awhile. Likewise returning the individual minis to their specific place in the correct case takes time. Perhaps you fail to realize just how large a serious warhammer minis collection can get. Either way, it simply took more time than we felt that it was worth. I'm not sure how "unfortunate" it is, but I will accept your view on it, and feel duly unfortunate for my (and my group's) slowness in setup.
(I am using this moment to feel duly unfortunate for the slowness of myself and my group at setting up our minis)
Now that I am done with truly feeling the depth of my unfortunate-ness, I'll move on to your next statement. I wasn't suggesting that there is no place in D&D for minis, nor was I denying that D&D grew out of a wargame. What I was outright saying without the need to imply anything, was that there is no place in our game for minis. You can argue that if you want to, but you'll be at a bit of a disadvantage as I don't ever recall seeing you at our table.
When I say that if we wanted to do the minis thing we'd play warhammer, I mean exactly that. When my group wants to play a tactical game with minis, we favor warhammer over D&D. When we want to play a table top RPG we favor D&D over warhammer. When we want to get together for a card game we favor poker over both D&D and warhammer. That's just us, YMMV as always.
Perhaps we are slow at setup, or perhaps looking through several cases worth of the relevant warhammer army for the "correct" minis takes awhile. Likewise returning the individual minis to their specific place in the correct case takes time. Perhaps you fail to realize just how large a serious warhammer minis collection can get. Either way, it simply took more time than we felt that it was worth. I'm not sure how "unfortunate" it is, but I will accept your view on it, and feel duly unfortunate for my (and my group's) slowness in setup.
(I am using this moment to feel duly unfortunate for the slowness of myself and my group at setting up our minis)
Now that I am done with truly feeling the depth of my unfortunate-ness, I'll move on to your next statement. I wasn't suggesting that there is no place in D&D for minis, nor was I denying that D&D grew out of a wargame. What I was outright saying without the need to imply anything, was that there is no place in our game for minis. You can argue that if you want to, but you'll be at a bit of a disadvantage as I don't ever recall seeing you at our table.
When I say that if we wanted to do the minis thing we'd play warhammer, I mean exactly that. When my group wants to play a tactical game with minis, we favor warhammer over D&D. When we want to play a table top RPG we favor D&D over warhammer. When we want to get together for a card game we favor poker over both D&D and warhammer. That's just us, YMMV as always.
The Little Raven
First Post
Rallek said:
I have a large collection of D&D miniatures, which I've collected since early 2nd edition. I have several cases full of them. However, when I go to games, I only take the miniatures I'm going to use. This reduces digging through cases looking for the right things.
Scribble
First Post
Mourn said:
Hrmm, I don't know if you can really argue this man..
I mean the guy's opinion is that his game was slower with minis. Opinions are opinions.
I'd agree minis slow things down.
In 2e we rarely used minis (other then for collecting and painting) because the benefits didn't really outweigh the cost of setting them up.
In 3e we do, because there are so many things that depend on location, and movement and such that the benefit very much outweighs the cost.
But that isn't always true for everyone.
