But what if I LIKE Anime/Video-game tropes in my D&D?

[Dannyalcatraz]

So perhaps then you should trust the professional game designers to cook the appropriate game?

Have you ever watched Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares? Even chefs can make disasterously awful recipes, as he points out each week in failing restaraunt after failing restaraunt.

I have my doubts about 4Ed, but I won't actually decide whether I like it until I get the core 3 in my hands.

However, I'm as leery about it as Gordon was about the pomegranate seeds in the risotto.

Pre 3E, when you asked me "What's a gnome" what I would think was "Madcap inventors who blow themselves up and preen about their big schnausers".

Which, in reality, only applied to a subset of gnomes within one setting.

They were just there and I'm surprised at the support for them.

I'm not, but then again, I knew a lot of Gnome players, myself included.

I do understand your perception, though- if you look back at the host of D&D products released over the decades, there probably would only be enough significant gnome NPCs to be counted on 1 or 2 hands- I can't think of any in the various NPC sourcbooks (like the 1Ed Rogues Gallery). So almost all of the gnomes in the game would have been played by players, and thus, not visible to the community at large (IOW, outside of a particular game group). Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Mallus]

But if you look at classic chili (D&D), the original main meat you're talking about is beef...

Some might argue the main meat in D&D has always been cheese.

C'mon! Armored Saint was big enough to do several albums, and only disbanded after their lead singer left to replace the lead singer of Anthrax.

Full disclosure: I just don't like metal (barring early Sabbath). In the 80's I listened to a lot of Peter Gabriel and the Talking Heads.

 

[kennew142]

Again, I don't know. But I'm just repeating what they have said to give an example of "What is being talked about" when people say "It's like Videogames". Whether it is Right or it is Wrong is not the point.

The biggest claim that I could say 4e is like videogames is the Warlock, whose powers sound very, very similar to the Necromancer and Warlock classes from Diablo II/WoW. The powers of all three revolve around curses, de-buffs, damage over time, and summoning (at least, given R&C it suggests that warlocks can do some summoning).

Which is fine to me; I loved the Necromancer and Warlock from those respective games, and the Warlock class excites me. I think debuffs are sexy.

But here, let's make a thread of this.

I believe we were talking past one another. I'm not denying that some posters are saying these things. I do believe that those who continue to state information that is false are caught up in their own truthiness and disregarding the actual statements of the designers.

I am going to follow the new thread you've started, but I probably won't have much to add. With the exception of D&D specific video games (NWN, Balder's Gate, PoR, etc...) I know very little about video games. I don't play them, and I don't like them.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Full disclosure: I just don't like metal (barring early Sabbath). In the 80's I listened to a lot of Peter Gabriel and the Talking Heads.

I hear you, bro...

I'm a music nut, and my tastes cover the gamut of pop, rock, reggae, classical, etc.

I was listening to metal, yes, but at the time, Duran Duran, Devo, Siouxsie & the Banshees and Peter Gabriel dominated my personal airspace.

 

[AllisterH]

Which, in reality, only applied to a subset of gnomes within one setting.


I do understand your perception, though- if you look back at the host of D&D products released over the decades, there probably would only be enough significant gnome NPCs to be counted on 1 or 2 hands- I can't think of any in the various NPC sourcbooks (like the 1Ed Rogues Gallery). So almost all of the gnomes in the game would have been played by players, and thus, not visible to the community at large (IOW, outside of a particular game group). Out of sight, out of mind.

Actually it was two settings. FR actually later on stole the "tinker Gnome" and had them be somewhat more serious in that their inventions did work (guns) but somewhat magical (only the gnomes could produce the blackpowerder for guns).

As for their nose, ALL D&D worlds that had gnomes, had gnomes depicted with big noses. The weird thing is that the gnome's nose has actually gotten smaller over the years. In 1E, it was positively enormous but even by 2E, it had started to shrink and by 3E, it was normal sized.

 

[DonTadow]

In short, anyone HAPPY about the move to add some anime and videogame elements into the old horse that is D&D?

Me too. I didn't get it a few months ago and I dont get it now. Anime and video game elements have borrowed from dungeons and dragons forever. I've always seen record of lodoss war to be the way dungeons and dragons looks. Its the way we played and we're talking 2 editions ago. Fast paced, intense brutal battles.

I think this whole debate comes down to whose imagination is better. I read 3e and I see the same style. I read 3.5 and i see the same style. I don't even know what fantasy is if its not creative attacks, over the top action and a medieval based setting. This is primarily all of your fantasy anime, fantasy novels, etc. We want to pretend that what is in there now is not over the top, but mechanically these things are absurdly intense. Power attack, so simple, yet in my imagination the creature rages screams and lays into his opponent. It is brutal, few hits like it. Fireball, conjuring up a fire, candles whistle in and out, light sources flicker as this mass of fire grows. Its enemies don't even see it fly towards them, only feel the flames and the wizard jolting his finger at them.

This is classic dungeons and dragons that seems to be only different from how you imagine it. If you don't imagine it like the artwork imagine it a different way.

 

[Mallus]

Where did I say that my interests were better objectively?

You didn't. My bad.

I mistook what you saying for a kind of silly argument that gets made around here on occasion that usually takes the form of: D&D is part of the great Western tradition of arts, literature and skill at doing violence, while Japanese stuff is puerile, wussy, and umm, lame. Mind you, I'm paraphrasing a little.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I too, was disappointed in general with NWN, though to be fair I found that there were a few good multi-player servers that were a lot of fun. As far as taking a bunch of time to make tactical decisions, well, that sounds like SRPG territory to me, so NWN might not be the best choice of media for that.

NWN did provide a lot of fun to me, but I still like the "real" game a little bit better.

The best implementation - and the most entertaining one - of the D&D combat rules for me was Temple of Elemental Evil. It was buggy as hell (though it used to work well on my PC,aside from hang-ups due to the way-finding routine), but it was very close to the D&D game experience in combats...

 

[MrWildman]

Happy about the move to add anime and videogame elements? Yeah, actually.

I'm a prodigal AD&Der brought back to the fold by 3.5's ruleset. The people I game with now, about 5-10 years younger than me, are as familiar and comfortable with these genres as I was with clanking armor and robed mages. My world is a brighter place now that I'm playing D&D again, but I noticed that, at first, anyway, I stood out from the party. In a group of sassy stuntmen dressed to the nines I lumbered around like an extra from "Hawk The Slayer".

Now I find my enthusiasm and creativity energized by these, to me, new and exotic ideas. It is very similar to my original delight upon discovering D&D. My love of RPGs stems from the inexhaustible creative possibilities, the continuous generation and interplay of inspirations and ideas. Introducing new ideas encourages innovative thinking, and sometimes passionate response.

So, yeah. It slapped me out of my grognard rut, and I look forward to exploring new creative frontiers.