Caltrops?

[Aussiehams]

I really dig 4e and our group has started playing again after not playing D&D for more than a year. We just finished a session and I realised that I missed caltrops.
I know that they weren't that strong, but as far as I can see their are no more area denial options. Sure they weren't any good against armored or smart enemies, but they were great against beasties, and could let you know if you were getting flanked or if someone was snaeking up on you.
I was thinking that these might work for 4e.

Caltrops.
1gp. 2lbs.
One 2- pound bag of caltrops covers a 5 foot square.
Each time a creature moves into an area covered by caltrops (or spends a round fighting while standing in such an area), it might step on one. The caltrops make an attack roll +2 Vs reflex against the creature. For this attack, the creature’s shield and armor bonuses do not count. If the creature is wearing shoes or other footwear, it gets a +2 armor bonus to its defense. A character can hide the caltrops by making a DC 20 Dungeoneering followed by a stealth check which becomes the DC for a perception test to spot the Caltrops. Any creature moving at half speed or slower can pick its way through a bed of caltrops with no trouble.
If the caltrops hit the target takes d6 damage and are slowed until you are healed or receive first aid, or 24 hours has passed.

What do people think? Are they a bit strong? Should the save just be save ends? I think if a save ends them they will be useless as a tactical tool to stop people getting to you.

Sorry that came out a lot longer than I had expected.

 

[Ashimaar Extorris]

While I'm not sure how I'd stat it out, they'd probably be more appropriate as a minor trap or hazard with a really low expense. Just my two cents.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I would maybe just skip the damage and let the enemy make a save, if they make it they aren't affected, if not they stop moving.

For instance: I have 6 square move. I move three squares into a caltrop field. I fail my save. I loose the last 3 squares of move. You can continue moving if you have actions left, but you must make a save pr action. You can move at 1/2 speed to avoid having to make saving throws.

Giving caltrops a static +2 vs reflex will make them unusable at higher levels.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

I was planning on using caltrops in my first 4E session. I like the idea of the save.

I think I might go with -

Make a save when you enter a square filled with caltrops. If you fail you are slowed and cannot run or charge (save ends.)

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I would try to keep it as simple as possible.

Caltrops:
Caltrops make an area difficult terrain.

 

[Mort_Q]

I would try to keep it as simple as possible.

Caltrops:
Caltrops make an area difficult terrain.

I'd add a tiny bit more complexity... but not much.

If you make your perception check, treat the square as difficult terrain. If you fail take 1d4 damage and are immobilized (save ends) and thereafter treat the square as difficult terrain.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

I would try to keep it as simple as possible.

Caltrops:
Caltrops make an area difficult terrain.

Problem is, that doesn't make them very effective at breaking up movement at all. Just a minor inconvenience. You had to create huge fields of caltrops to have a significant effect.

I'm not saying they should be super powerful weapons of doom or anything, but throwing down a square of caltrops as a standard action ought to help you out more than simply costing somebody a square of movement.

Simple is good though, so now I am thinking - save or you are immobilized until the end of your turn.

 

[Aussiehams]

I like the ideas you guys are coming up with. I really like the idea of making it a quick to set up 1 use trap. I am just worried that might be to complicated and I am pretty sure that the new game mechanic isn't really set up for PC being trap builders or anything similar.
I think it would be ideal to have something that lasted more than one round or an easy save though.
I would really like for something to guard your backs a bit if you have to pick a passageway in a room with several options.
I think what I want and what will work well in the game are probably very different though.

 

[SuperGnome]

I would try to keep it as simple as possible.

Caltrops:
Caltrops make an area difficult terrain.

Agreed. It seems a touch simple, but so is 4e.

[edit] I was thinking Slowed, not Difficult Terrain, like you'd move in but then have only one square of movement left. That doesn't make much sense now that I think about it. Too busy to think right now.

 

[VannATLC]

Most beasts will avoid caltrops if they can see them at all.

My dog always avoids glass she can see.. and while she does some times get splinters from glass, and once a nasty cut from a shard, it never slows her down at the time.

People don't have anywhere *near* the perceptions of beasts, though, so hidden caltrops work better.. but I'd personally go with the difficult terrain + stealth vs perception or immboilized till end of their next turn.