Can a Swift/Immediate Action be Used as a Standard Action?

[Zelc]

Further, although I agree getting 5 spells of in a round could be considered gamebreaking, remember they would for the most part have to be swift or quickened spells, having either a limited impact or a higher than normal spell level.

Is greater cleave gamebreaking because a fighter can, under the right circumstances, get off a number of attacks much larger than normal?

Arcane Spellsurge: all my spells are swift actions. Your example with Great Cleave holds no candle to this whatsoever. I'm sure it'll make the Celerity line much more broken as well.

I swear there's a way to break it with Psionics, but I can't remember how exactly.

 

[Mistwell]

The rules do not allow it. However, since a swift action is supposed to take less time than both a move action and a standard action, I think it only makes sense to allow a swift action as a standard action. Heck I think it makes sense to allow a swift action as a move action personally, but many others disagree with my view on that topic.

 

[irdeggman]

Just checked my copy of the Rules Compendium.

pg 7 contains a list of the action types (including swift and immeditate actions).

The text on move actions still says "you can take a move action instead of a standard action" but the text for swift actions does not contain that caveat. So per the RAW it is definitely not allowed.

 

[Fifth Element]

The text on move actions still says "you can take a move action instead of a standard action" but the text for swift actions does not contain that caveat. So per the RAW it is definitely not allowed.

It appears so. And it appears to be a silly result, based on the idea that a swift action is one that takes very little time, which is how it's described officially, I believe.

If you change their conception to, say, a simple action rather than a swift action, you can think of it as something simple enough to do while you're doing something else. It still takes several seconds to do (like a move action or a standard action), but you can multi-task.

I'm not saying that's how the designers intended it, but it can help with the cognitive dissonance that can arise when you tell a player he can do something that takes several seconds, but cannot do something that takes almost no time at all, since he previously did something else that takes almost no time at all.

 

[Herzog]

Had the time to check the RC last night, and although (as mentioned above) the rules have not been clarified, the fact that you can take a move action as a standard action is repeated over and over again while never mentioning whether other actions can be substituted now has me switching to the other side:

You can have only one swift action per round. You cannot use a move or standard action (or even a full round action) to perform an action specified as swift action if you have already taken a swift action that round.

But I'm still not completely convinced. If FAQ or errata could be found on the subject.....

Herzog

 

[Zelc]

Remember, physics is a houserule. In game design, realism takes a back seat to game balance. There is at least one way that multiple swift actions in a round can be broken (Arcane Spellsurge), and I'm sure there are more. (Ooh I know, multiple Temporal Accelerations in a round!)

If your players won't abuse it, go ahead and houserule it. Just be sure to keep a finger on that fat red marker if you decide it's a bad idea.

 

[eamon]

On the topic of cognitive dissonance: You can imagine that swift actions are quicker, but nevertheless strenuous actions. You can't perform too many in a given timeframe simply because it's too difficult.

I also think that sacrificing a standard action for a swift action (maybe even swift+move?) is not gamebreaking. Can anyone think of an exploit in a game where you can trade your standard action for a swift action? One where you can trade it for a swift+move action?

In both cases, celerity becomes a little better - but not much. You could gain extra move actions by "stacking" celerity (greater) spells, but never more than one standard action, and it would cost you many spell slots.

Allowing move actions to become swift actions will be game breaking; this would grant you "stackable" Greater celerities for multiple bonus standard actions.

 

[irdeggman]

Arcane Spellsurge: all my spells are swift actions.

Where is this one from please?

 

[Zelc]

Arcane Spellsurge is from Dragon Magic. Basically, it reduces the time taken to cast all spells. Sorcerers normally have an advantage while using it because they can easily make their spells full-round actions by applying a metamagic feat to them, so they can easily cast two spells per round while it's active (not so much if they take Rapid Metamagic, of course).

 

[prospero63]

Too lazy to read the whole thread. Per the RAW I don't believe it is possible. We house rule that.