Can I be planar bound?

[Jack Simth]

Yeah... With the duration and the need to pen the diagram and such, it's definetly not designed as a combat spell... but that's just one of the many odd features of the spell. Interestingly it's much harder to bind a succubus with their high charisma than most other outsiders. Balors have too high an HD limit in 3.5, but in 3.0 it was easier to summon and bind a balor than a succubus. I haven't looked at the other demons and elementals in 3.5 but I bet this still holds true.

Vorp

3.5:
With the Balor's +19 Will save, vs. the Succubi's +7, it's much harder to get the Balor into the trap to bind than it is the Succubi - although you can't technically bind a Balor in 3.5, as it's got 20 hd, which is above the limit. A Pit Fiend, on the other hand, has 18 hd (possible with Greater Planar Binding), and a +21 Will save. Pit Fiend has a +8 Charisma modifier, same as the Succubi's. A 14 HD Planetar, on the other hand, has a +15 Will save, a +6 Charisma modifier, and casts as a Cleric-17.... and a Wizard can Call one up at 15th with an 8th level spell, a few lower-level spells (Dimensional Anchor, Magic Circle Against Alignment) and some time.

Moment of Prescience (Divination, Sor/Wiz 8) deals with the Charisma modifer on the beasties quite handily. At caster level 15th, it grants a +15 insight bonus to one action of the caster's choice, the list of possibilities includes opposed ability checks, which would include the Charisma check made in Binding a creature. A well-built Conjourer/Diviner-15 (with access to all the appropriet spells, of course) has little trouble binding a critter.

 

[Vorput]

3.5:
With the Balor's +19 Will save, vs. the Succubi's +7, it's much harder to get the Balor into the trap to bind than it is the Succubi - although you can't technically bind a Balor in 3.5, as it's got 20 hd, which is above the limit. A Pit Fiend, on the other hand, has 18 hd (possible with Greater Planar Binding), and a +21 Will save. Pit Fiend has a +8 Charisma modifier, same as the Succubi's. A 14 HD Planetar, on the other hand, has a +15 Will save, a +6 Charisma modifier, and casts as a Cleric-17.... and a Wizard can Call one up at 15th with an 8th level spell, a few lower-level spells (Dimensional Anchor, Magic Circle Against Alignment) and some time.

Moment of Prescience (Divination, Sor/Wiz 8) deals with the Charisma modifer on the beasties quite handily. At caster level 15th, it grants a +15 insight bonus to one action of the caster's choice, the list of possibilities includes opposed ability checks, which would include the Charisma check made in Binding a creature. A well-built Conjourer/Diviner-15 (with access to all the appropriet spells, of course) has little trouble binding a critter.

Good points, and thanks for the rundown- high will saves aren't really an issue though- cause you can cast this spell over and over on em... they have to fail eventually. Sure they'll detect someone is tryng to bind em with a spellcraft check, but there's VERY little they can do about it... as my air genesai wizard is finding out.

I have to think the best way to handle this deals with how extremely angry such beings would be at being called... although... on the other hand- you can also release them on the material plane, they perform a task for you- and then I don't think they have to take their one time return to where they came. Kind of a scary thought... sure you can summon the pit fiend and make him kill your enemies- but suddenly the pit fiend has their castle, has dominated their army- and it coming back for you!

 

[Jack Simth]

Good points, and thanks for the rundown- high will saves aren't really an issue though- cause you can cast this spell over and over on em... they have to fail eventually. Sure they'll detect someone is tryng to bind em with a spellcraft check, but there's VERY little they can do about it... as my air genesai wizard is finding out.

I have to think the best way to handle this deals with how extremely angry such beings would be at being called... although... on the other hand- you can also release them on the material plane, they perform a task for you- and then I don't think they have to take their one time return to where they came. Kind of a scary thought... sure you can summon the pit fiend and make him kill your enemies- but suddenly the pit fiend has their castle, has dominated their army- and it coming back for you!

Depending on how the DM chooses to read the wording of Lesser Planar Binding, the have to go home before they can later seek revenge.

But that's not the abusive version. Why would you get any XP/treasure for the things the called beasty killed while you were sitting in your cozy keep a hundred miles away? Sure, you've eliminated an opponent.... but to what end? And, in the process, you've got a critter that can seek revenge.

The real abuse comes from Planar Binding, say, Efreeti. Then forcing them to use their once/day spell like ability to grant a mortal (you) three wishes. Do note that they are Lawful Evil, however, so word your wishes very carefully, and remain on the "safe" list. But even with that, a Wizard-11 with a few scrolls of the needed spells (which, with the right spell selection, he can make) could fairly readily have a +5 Inherent bonus to every stat after a week or two....

 

[frankthedm]

But even with that, a Wizard-11 with a few scrolls of the needed spells (which, with the right spell selection, he can make) could fairly readily have a +5 Inherent bonus to every stat after a week or two....

Inherant bonuses only stack if cast right after one another, so that is a small window of opportunity...

 

[Notmousse]

Inherant bonuses only stack if cast right after one another, so that is a small window of opportunity...

Yes, and no. It could be interpreted that the spells only need be cast in succession as no explicit time frame is given. In which case you could prepare each spell, and then execute them as near to simutainously as possible. Or, you could prepare several castings, and then hold the demons till you're ready for your wishes and take them all at once.

 

[Vorput]

What the hey, it came up- I'll ask it here- can I scribe 5 scrolls of wish and use them in a row and have that count as the +5 inherent bonus?

Alternativly, can I cast wish as many times as my char is able, and then use the scrolls to get the rest of the +5 bonus?

 

[Jack Simth]

Inherant bonuses only stack if cast right after one another, so that is a small window of opportunity...

Which is why you make certain you have two of them planar bound at any given moment; each can be made to grant three wishes, and with the use of Planar Binding, you can make sure they're given to you with timing convinent for you, in such a way that they can.

Shucks, even if you need them all on the same turn, you Bind five of them all at once, and have them all grant you a wish/turn for three turns, all five at the same time; that's five wishes in the span of a single turn, enough to get your +5 inherent bonus to three stats. Repeat later (once you've replaced all those scrolls you burned through) and you get the other three stats the same way.

If you REALLY want to get abusive, have a 13th level Wizard Planar Bind an Efreeti... but instead of going the normal route of making a deal with it, kill it, and make two Simulacrum of it, and order them to give you the wishes in rapid sequence (with, of course, a nifty, well thought out, must-be-obeyed clause of no hurting me). And again the next day. And the next, and the next, and the next......

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Inherant bonuses only stack if cast right after one another, so that is a small window of opportunity...

??? I don't remember reading this anywhere. Can you explain it a bit more?

 

[Jack Simth]

??? I don't remember reading this anywhere. Can you explain it a bit more?

Easily done:

Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

(Emphasis added)