Can I enchant a Shield's spikes separately from the Shield itself?

[Caliban]

For armor spikes it states that the spikes "may be made into magic weapons in their own right". Shouldn't it be the same for shield spikes?

No, because armor cannot normally be used to attack. The armor spikes are a seperate weapon.

Shield spikes are not a seperate weapon from the shield. The shield normally does bludgeoning damage and shield spikes change it to Piercing and increase the damage by die size, but you are still using the shield to make the attack.

 

[Iku Rex]

Exactly. And weapon and armor special abilities have a market modifier that combined with the enhancement bonus gives the total effective bonus.

Exactly? I think you missed my point.

I'll quote from the SRD.

A shield cannot have an effective bonus (enhancement plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A shield with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

You said: "If you want to add weapon enhancements to the shield, you first have to enchant it as a +1 weapon (even if it is already a +1 shield."

However, none of the above quotes say anything about the type of bonus involved. If you are right that "enhancement bonus" is meant to be any kind of enhancemnt bonus, you do not have to enchant a shield as a weapon before adding special (weapon) abilities to it.

 

[Caliban]

Exactly? I think you missed my point.

You said: "If you want to add weapon enhancements to the shield, you first have to enchant it as a +1 weapon (even if it is already a +1 shield."

However, none of the above quotes say anything about the type of bonus involved. If you are right that "enhancement bonus" is meant to be any kind of enhancemnt bonus, you do not have to enchant a shield as a weapon before adding special (weapon) abilities to it.

You need to read the entire section, not just the bits that say things you like.

Also from the SRD:

You could, in fact, build a shield that also acted as a magic weapon, but the magic offensive bonus cost would need to be added into the defensive bonus cost of the shield.

 

[Ysgarran]

From the SRD:

http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdequipmenti.html


Shield Spikes: These spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon that deals 1d6 points of damage (X2 crit) no matter whether the shield is small or large.

This seems to say that a spiked shield is a weapon that happens to be able to act a shield. It seems to me any enhancements must be payed for as a weapon and not as armor.

While a normal shield can be used for bashing it still pays the normal armor enhancement costs. A +1 large shield that has been echanted with an 'armor' enhancement bonus still does 1d6 + 1.

 

[Iku Rex]

You need to read the entire section, not just the bits that say things you like.

Also from the SRD: <snip>

What does that quote have to do with anything?

You are claiming that enhancement bonuses are all the same. If that's the case, you don't need a +1 weapon enhancement bonus to add a special weapon ability to a shield.

 

[Caliban]

What does that quote have to do with anything?

You are claiming that enhancement bonuses are all the same. If that's the case, you don't need a +1 weapon enhancement bonus to add a special weapon ability to a shield.

Please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

I never said that they are all the same, I said that the limit on total enhancement bonuses doesn't differentiate between weapor and armor enhancement bonuses.

The requirements for adding special abilities does differentiate: You need a +1 offensive enhancement to add weapon abilities, and a +1 defensive enhancement to add armor/shield abilities.

You are just limited to a total of +10 effective enhancement on a single weapon/shield and it doesn't matter where those effective enhancement bonuses come from.

 

[Iku Rex]

The requirements for adding special abilities does differentiate: You need a +1 offensive enhancement to add weapon abilities, and a +1 defensive enhancement to add armor/shield abilities.

I agree this is how it works, but what are you basing your opinion on?

The only rule I can find (quoted twice already) does not differentiate between weapon and armor enhancement bonuses any more than the "+10 effective enhancement" rule does.

 

[Caliban]

I agree this is how it works, but what are you basing your opinion on?

I'm basing my opinion on the rules, my understanding of the intent and spirit of those rules, and my sense of game balance.

That is why I stated it as an OPINION and not a hard fact.
Sometime even I am allowed to have an opinion without backing it up with 3 documented references and an e-mail from the game designers.

Sheesh.

The only rule I can find (quoted twice already) does not differentiate between weapon and armor enhancement bonuses any more than the "+10 effective enhancement" rule does.

The quote I gave you (that you claim does not apply) indicates to me that it does differentiate in that instance.

Sometimes you need to follow the spirit of the rules, when the letter of the rules doesn't spell it out explicitly.

 

[Iku Rex]

Sometimes you need to follow the spirit of the rules, when the letter of the rules doesn't spell it out explicitly.

That's what I was doing... You claimed that "the limit very clearly applies to any type of enhancement." I think I have shown that it's not clear at all.

IMO your opinion is based in an inconsistent interpretation of the rules. ("Enhancement bonus" is a general term in one sentence of the paragraph, and is specific to armor in the next.)

YMMV.

 

[Caliban]

That's what I was doing... You claimed that "the limit very clearly applies to any type of enhancement." I think I have shown that it's not clear at all.

IMO your opinion is based in an inconsistent interpretation of the rules. ("Enhancement bonus" is a general term in one sentence of the paragraph, and is specific to armor in the next.)

YMMV.

Hey, if you think that allowing someone to create a +20 equivalent item that only takes up one item slot and can be used as either a sheild or weapon is by the spirit of the rules, and can talk your DM into it, more power to you.

*shrug* Just don't try it in any game I run.