D&D 5E Can mundane classes have a resource which powers abilities?

[Mishihari Lord]

I'm all for it as long as it makes sense.

The main one I can think of that actually makes sense off the top of my head is fatigue. E.g. a fighter starts off with 20 fatigue points. Special abilities cost X fatigue each, and when he's out he has to wait until a rest time to get them back.

Adrenalin/rage for a beserker works.

I had a custom character class in my game once, a fighter engineer. Their resource is money. Special abilities are based on machines powered by alchemical substances, and the juice to run these things is expensive. After an ability is used, the machine needs to be reloaded, which isn't practical in combat. And since the stuff is expensive and heavy, the PC never carries all that much of it. Once he's out he has to wait til the party is back in a city with a skilled alchemist to stock up again.

 

[steeldragons]

All are incredibly easy to track, grounded in verisimilitude, and add layers of depth and meaningful strategic choice to the game.

I think it's clear most players prefer some mundane resource management as long as its believable.

THIS is all I'm saying/asking for!...Well, I'm not asking for it, the OP is. I'm just kinda agreeing/saying "yeah, it's possible/might not be a bad thing."

 

[Neonchameleon]

The answer is that of course mundane classes can and should have a resource that powers abilities. Stamina. If they don't have that they aren't mundane.

If people want to play superhero games there are plenty out there. Why does D&D need to become one?

The fighter was the consistent performer and the class of choice for players who just wanted to kick some ass and not have to track stuff.

The magic using classes were all about managing limited resources. Then the magic using classes got tired of being limited so they called the Waaaahhhhmbulance until they got at-will reliable magic to perform consistently AND pull out the show stoppers when needed.

Now the fighter, with his one advantage stripped away either cries louder than the spell users until he gets his BOOM abilities or lives with being a sidekick.

Thus the new toy escalation wars are born. Keep cranking everything up to 11 until you may as well just play in the Marvel universe because all the characters would fit right in.

Am I the only one who thinks a saner option is dialing things back a bit towards traditional fantasy instead of pushing towards MOAR MOAR MOAR?

The above on the other hand is a complete re-write of history. D&D has been a superhero game at mid-high level ever since it was published. If you take the time to read the 1e AD&D PHB then the eighth level fighter is quite literally a superhero. It's what the level for fighters is called (and I believe was called this ever since the brown box). And then there are the consequences of hit points.

As for the idea that fighters were consistent performers, this too is a fabrication and complete failure to understand D&D. First the idea fighters had no resource management is a myth from start to finish. If they had no resource management and were as unlimited as was complained they would not have had hit points to worry about. Fighters pressing forward has been about risk/reward. Secondly you tracked ammo and encumberance for a good reason.

They were also distinctly underpowered - and Gygax is on record on these boards as saying that the seemingly overpowered fighter variants in Unearthed Arcana were for balance purposes. A fighter pre-UA was not significantly better at fighting than the Cleric. (Yes, swords were better than cleric weapons - and they scaled slightly faster).

So given that you are objecting to D&D being the way it has always been, are you going to withdraw your complaint? Why do you want D&D to look either like WFRP or Ars Magica rather than like D&D?

 

[Bluenose]

If people want to play superhero games there are plenty out there. Why does D&D need to become one?

Mechanically yes. Doing so and maintaining the feel of D&D not so much. Calling magic something else and just labeling it as a power source is basically a transformation to the supers genre. Everyone just has these cool powers that work somehow and they form a team of crimefighters...err.. adventurers.

You may want to consider that you're coming very close to declaring that any game which has magic and which doesn't do it in the exact way you prefer (the "traditional" D&D way) is a superhero game. This doesn't make your argument look stronger.

 

[Arduin's]

Mechanically yes. Doing so and maintaining the feel of D&D not so much. Calling magic something else and just labeling it as a power source is basically a transformation to the supers genre. Everyone just has these cool powers that work somehow and they form a team of crimefighters...err.. adventurers.

Correct. D&D was successful because of what it was. Not what it wasn't. When it went far afield (4E) of that it lost its preeminence. (PF) took the top spot market wise. Now, WotC is trying to undo that error. But, they really didn't recognize the error if the playtest materials are anything like what the final cut is going to be. Thus, they will not regain 1st place in the FRPG category. (aside from the release sales numbers one shot).

 

[ExploderWizard]

You may want to consider that you're coming very close to declaring that any game which has magic and which doesn't do it in the exact way you prefer (the "traditional" D&D way) is a superhero game. This doesn't make your argument look stronger.

I'm strictly talking about D&D which is kind of its own sub-genre not any and all fantasy themed games.

 

[Ahnehnois]

At that point, you have to balance the rage itself so that it doesn't actually make you better in any way. You can't be better while raging and worse while not-raging, because you'll never be not-raging. And if that's the case, why even have it?

Well, that's why I left the fatigue on.

But you're right that the rationale for rage is somewhat tenuous to begin with. If we're talking typically about combats that last less than a minute and aren't that frequent, I would generally make the assumption that people are always emotionally engaged and trying hard, not picking and choosing when they want to really go at it. Barbarian rage seems more like a static or ongoing feature (I've learned how to channel my anger) than a mode that one turns on or off.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm strictly talking about D&D which is kind of its own sub-genre not any and all fantasy themed games.

As I've pointed out you aren't. You are talking about ExploderWizard's houserules to D&D which say that the class that in AD&D was explicitly a superhero isn't, something weird about hit points, take resource management away from the fighter, and use one of the stronger fighter rulesets (probably 2e) as a base. Oh, and fighters (and even wizards) don't take a ridiculously long time to kill in melee. A time that makes the claimed padded sumo of 4e look almost instant.

D&D is one thing. ExploderWizard's houserules to D&D are another. And frankly, calling on D&D's traditions is one thing - but your house rules are about as relevant as mine to the traditions of D&D.

 

[Wulfgar76]

But you're right that the rationale for rage is somewhat tenuous to begin with.

I rather liked the playtest rule that said you needed to take damage before you could enter a rage. But that no longer exists.

 

[Bluenose]

I'm strictly talking about D&D which is kind of its own sub-genre not any and all fantasy themed games.

So there are ways to do magic which don't make a game into a superhero one, if you're "strictly talking about D&D". If those systems were used in D&D, you wouldn't claim "Superheroes" about them. So the solution for people wanting different magic systems in D&D is to identify the ones which aren't from superhero games and use them. And you'll accept that.