D&D 5E Can my table focus on making things fun instead of optimizing?

[prosfilaes]

That's actually not true, particularly of real world snipers.

I gave you a name: Simo Häyhä. Explain to me how that's not true about Simo Häyhä.

People aren't born knowing their talents, and many go their whole lives without really feeling awesome at anything.

And they're called henchmen.

you can't bend an entire game away from its roleplaying core just because you don't feel like you do enough damage. For starters it is incredibly selfish,

I play a game to have fun. Lecturing me that I shouldn't, that I should tolerate that I should spend hours of my life twiddling my thumbs watching other people get to play, doesn't convince me of anything. Having to wait a half hour for my turn to say "I guess there's nothing I can do" is not fun.

ultimately, too much metagame is always bad. Always. A little is fine, and to be expected. But when metagame becomes more important than the actual game, you're out of balance.

No. Board games, for example, are all what you call "metagame", and many more people like boardgames then roleplaying games. In modern boardgames, players are not knocked out of the action, and there's a lot of attempt to make players like they're still in the game up to the end.

But whatever floats your boat, dude. I do understand how a DM might get sick of it, though. Too bad you can't. It might make your game more enjoyable.

Here's a hint; don't make what you think are appeals to empathy lasted with brags and personal attacks.

You can not say that we're going to spend 4 hours tonight in a tactical subgame and maybe 2 hours where my character's stats will matter minimally, and expect me not to optimize my stats for that tactical subgame. You need to reward the behavior that you want to see, not make a bunch of fuss about roleplaying in what's basically a tactical wargame.

 

[prosfilaes]

how is your character both Japanese and European?

My characters in Pathfinder are not generally from Earth. This character, unsurprisingly, is from Golarion.

If not it's a bit like being a minotaur/dragon, isn't it?

No, it's a bit like being a fey-blooded human or fey-blooded dwarf.

 

[mcbobbo]

Sure it does, I worry about my enjoyment of me having fun with the time I invest in my hobby, don't care about the rest of the fools let them eat cake.

I play a game to have fun. Lecturing me that I shouldn't, that I should tolerate that I should spend hours of my life twiddling my thumbs watching other people get to play, doesn't convince me of anything. Having to wait a half hour for my turn to say "I guess there's nothing I can do" is not fun.

I'll lump you both together for convenience. Please note, this thread is not about your fun. It is about someone not having fun and for a specific reason. If you don't care about that, why are you here?? Advocacy is one thing, but deep self-interest seems out of place, doesn't it?

No. Board games, for example, are all what you call "metagame", and many more people like boardgames then roleplaying games.

I consider board games to be a lower form of entertainment than roleplaying games. To wit, roleplaying games are more than just board games. If your RPG time is board game time, you're missing something. Or rather, if my roleplaying time were just board game time, I'd just play board games instead. I have some really good ones, and in fact take one to work almost every week. But I'm talking about something else.

Here's a hint; don't make what you think are appeals to empathy lasted with brags and personal attacks.

Thanks?

You can not say that we're going to spend 4 hours tonight in a tactical subgame and maybe 2 hours where my character's stats will matter minimally, and expect me not to optimize my stats for that tactical subgame. You need to reward the behavior that you want to see, not make a bunch of fuss about roleplaying in what's basically a tactical wargame.

Well for starters, I'm in the 5e forum, not the 4e one. ( JOKING JOKING PUT AWAY THE PITCHFORKS )

I would never, ever say that. I would say something like 'playing D&D'. You might not see any combat at all. That's going to be totally up to you, but there are always going to be multiple ways to solve a given problem and trying to kill your way out of everything isn't wise. Because we're going to go into a quasi-real place and explore it together. But as above, if you'd rather play Pandemic, I'm down for that, too.

 

[mcbobbo]

My characters in Pathfinder are not generally from Earth. This character, unsurprisingly, is from Golarion.

Neat, so how is your character simultaneously from the Inner Sea region and Tian Xia?

No, it's a bit like being a fey-blooded human or fey-blooded dwarf.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HybridOverkillAvoidance

 

[Paraxis]

I'll lump you both together for convenience. Please note, this thread is not about your fun. It is about someone not having fun and for a specific reason. If you don't care about that, why are you here?? Advocacy is one thing, but deep self-interest seems out of place, doesn't it?

This thread was about helping a DM deal with an issue at his table, I gave my advice to him as a fellow DM to just accept the optimization, work with his players and encourage them to find fun during the game, then the concept of optimization came under attack. I like optimization and enjoy it, so I defended what I enjoy.

It is selfish when you are playing, you want to have fun. I don't want to waste my time being ineffective for the evening, I let the other players worry about having their own fun.

 

[Uchawi]

Unless you have a very compelling story and keep everyone on the edge of their seat, it is very hard to have a consistent feeling on what is fun if you have a diverse group of players at the table. That applies even if the majority have never played D&D, but have experience with RPGs in general.

You are just asking for the impossible, even if optimization is not front and center, to guarantee everyone will have fun doing the same thing. Overall what I consider fun is something I have not experienced before whether it is a story, rules, concepts, challenges, etc.. Once I started to play RPGs in general, the experience of the story is harder to maintain as a focal point of fun, so you look for other avenues like understanding how the game works to bring a new perspective to the game.

What we define as fun as a child, may differ as a teen, or even an adult. Bring a group of people together and that becomes much harder, even if you share the same interests. Hopefully the DM has enough experience to spread the joy around.

 

[mcbobbo]

It is selfish when you are playing, you want to have fun. I don't want to waste my time being ineffective for the evening, I let the other players worry about having their own fun.

That's why I GM. I want others to have fun, and find that fun in and of itself. I think many GMs are that way.

 

[prosfilaes]

Please note, this thread is not about your fun. It is about someone not having fun and for a specific reason. If you don't care about that, why are you here?? Advocacy is one thing, but deep self-interest seems out of place, doesn't it?

If I'm at the table, it's to have fun. If you want to discourage your table from optimizing, you need to understand

I consider board games to be a lower form of entertainment than roleplaying games.

That's amazing empathy there, by dismissing other games as "lower forms of entertainment".

I would never, ever say that. I would say something like 'playing D&D'. You might not see any combat at all. That's going to be totally up to you, but there are always going to be multiple ways to solve a given problem and trying to kill your way out of everything isn't wise. Because we're going to go into a quasi-real place and explore it together. But as above, if you'd rather play Pandemic, I'm down for that, too.

So let's ignore the games that everyone else is playing and act like your game is the one true D&D and anyone talking about anything else should just shut up. If you want me to not to optimize, you need to decrease the need to.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HybridOverkillAvoidance

http://paizo.com/prd/classes/sorcerer.html "Bloodline: Each sorcerer has a source of magic somewhere in her heritage that grants her spells, bonus feats, an additional class skill, and other special abilities. This source can represent a blood relation or an extreme event involving a creature somewhere in the family's past. For example, a sorcerer might have a dragon as a distant relative or her grandfather might have signed a terrible contract with a devil." Or are you saying that people shouldn't play sorcerers in Pathfinder?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I think I've lost track of the point of this thread.

Initially it was players are only interested in the adventure in that it gives them more of an opportunity to get back to fiddling with their character sheets. The Dm wanted them to stop and smell the roses. Enjoy the adventure and make leveling up secondary. Since 5e isn't 3.x or PF with 120 splat books to peruse to find that system busting feat or combo to put your PC over the top just, what are they doing that is so annoying? Only creating the most mechanically effective PCs? If they role-play them fine shouldn't be a problem. I hate systems that to me emphasize the character build being as much as the game as the adventure, but I don't see that out of 5e yet and hopefully won't.

If everything but getting to yell DING when they level and get to go back to work on the build is not fun for them you may not be on the same page when it comes to gaming. But there isn't that much to tweak in 5e.

 

[prosfilaes]

That's why I GM. I want others to have fun, and find that fun in and of itself. I think many GMs are that way.

If you want others to have fun, you need to listen to them. It is not at all fun to be spending hours in combats where I'm not doing anything effective. If you don't care about that, then it's not true that you want me to have fun in the game.