D&D (2024) Can we have the sorcerer fixed now? (Plz, I beg you n_n°)

[MoonSong]

One D&D is the chance to finally have sorcerer fixed. Of course issues with all classes are important, though sorcerer in particular stings more since there was basically no public playtest of it the last time around. To summarize the known issues with sorcerer:

• Too few spells known. The smallest amount out of all full casters. This makes the class harder to play than it should be, and limits the ability to cover a theme because there are just not enough spells.
• Limited class spells. A lot of the sorcerer class spells focus on combat and there aren't enough non-combat utility effects. Also there are basically no exclusive/sorcerer only spells. And most egregious, Dragon sorcerer can't turn into a dragon despite the spell existing in the game!
• Too much pressure on sorcery points. Sorcerer features rely too much on sorcery points. There are too many uses for sorcery points and not enough of them to cast even a full day's assortment of spells and use metamagic, let alone use the other class features.
• Limited Metamagic. Metamagic takes too long to come online and once you have it you have too few metamagic options for most of your career. Some options are nearly must-haves and some are too expensive for what they do. Some options aren't in the core book (like damage change)
• Issues with subclasses. Almost all older subclasses have issues. Wild magic is too reliant on DM cooperation, Dragon magic works fine, as long as you choose a fire dragon... most older subclasses could benefit from bonus spells, and there are only two in core.
• No familiars.

Some minor nitpicks that are more personal:

• Lack of simple weapon proficiency. Spears are an iconic sorcerer weapon, at least let us have proficiency with them. More of a ribbon since most everybody will just blast, but come on! 5e took them away for no reason!
• Needing an arcane focus or material components. It would be nice, real nice if sorcerers could cast without needing to rely on external items. Bring Eschew Materials back!
• Some more nice to have stuff. Like I don't know letting sorcerers have an always-on weaker version of detect magic.

What else did I miss? People who think sorcerers need fixing Assemble!

@FrogReaver @Aldarc @Chaosmancer, @Tony Vargas, @Hawk Diesel, @RangerWickett, @dco @Gwarok, @LapBandit @Sword of Spirit, @Gradine, @gyor, @Xeviat, @Yunru, @Jago, @flametitan, @Ketser, @cbwjm, @Immoralkickass @ScuroNotte , @Irda Ranger @dropbear8mybaby, @Tales and Chronicles, @Ashrym @oreofox

 

[Hawk Diesel]

I have been summoned!

But seriously, I think themed spell lists can go a long way. I also like the Tasha's option to be able to switch out one known spell for a different one once per long rest, allowing you to really tune in your spell selection without feeling penalized for taking a spell that doesn't quite work in the way you'd like.

I also agree that sorcery points are... less than ideal. Compared to a Wizard, it has the exact same spell slot creation power as a wizard's arcane recovery. Sure, it's more flexible in that you can create the spell slots as needed whereas the Wizard has to wait for a long rest, but it ALSO fuels metamagic on top of that. But I don't know how to really fix that.

One thing I think could be interesting regarding metamagic would be to have a certain number of metamagic slots, and you prepare which metamagic you have access to for the day. That give the sorcerer some more flexibility, and as you level you can get more slots to have more metamagic options available.

 

[Leatherhead]

Sorcerers post tasha's are wildly different beasts than they were back in 2014, and I fully expect every sorcerer subclass to be reworked to match them. When combined with the new origin feats, I managed to make a level 5 sorcerer that had double the spells of a traditional human draconic sorcerer.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I'm hoping they just step away from "1 per level" resources. It is the original design sin of both Sorcerer and Monk in 5e. Maybe their current obsession with the proficiency bonus will provide a solution.

I would like to see a general backing down from limited spells known as such a limit on power. I think in the case of Sorcerers they not only went overboard on limiting from a mechanical power perspective, but also from a lore perspective. The whole theme of a 5e Sorcerer is that they are just naturally (or rather supernaturally) gifted with magic. They have designed the class with the expectation that you are swapping out spells at level up. People do not swap out their innate talents for other innate talents. The design has missed the whole lore of the class.

I think the other issue is that most of the metamagic options do not really evoke the "weird magical gifts letting the sorcerer shape magic in unique ways" vibe that I think was the theory behind making Sorcerers the exclusive metamagic caster. Twining or Quickening spells are really powerful abilities, but they aren't really fundamentally changing the spells or doing anything particularly thematic. It wasn't until Tasha's brought in metamagic to turn your fireball into an iceball that I really felt like I was really reshaping how a spell worked.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Still wish we had ended up with the DnD Next playtest sorcerer instead of what we got. But from asking around, that's an unpopular opinion.

Still think that could have been its own entirely unique class. In 5e those mechanics are still untouched.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

1) More slots! Screw the ''sorcery points to recover slots''. Just give them more slots, and if the player wants, they'll convert those bonus slots to SP to use more innate features and Metamagic.

2) I'd put the Reckless Casting feature (+controlled chaos) from the UA Invention Wizard as part of the main class chassis. Ideally, each subclass has its own table of reckless casting, but that could be space consuming.
2.1) Or, give them access to 2 spell list from Arcane, Divine, Primal or X.

3) Simple weapons proficiency.

4) At higher level, give them Magic Resistance. They are magic incarnate! And if they save against a spell, they recover some HP or regain some SP.

5) More Innate features costing SP (since now their extra spell slots dont come from not using your other features)

6) No spell component unless they are consumed. Give them a visual tell if need be, but checks to counterspell or identify a sorcerer's spellcasting are made at disadvantage.

 

[James Gasik]

The fact that a Wizard is more versatile than the guy whose whole deal is he doesn't have to prepare spells is the main thing that needs to be addressed, IMO. Sorcery points being such a limited resource is a pain, but my main beef is when subclass features require their use- Sorcerers have enough uses for points as it is.

Wild Magic needs to be reworked. Tides of Chaos needs to refresh on something better than "when the DM feels like it". The chances for a Wild Surge, since it's your whole subclass feature need to be better than 5% of the time when you burn a spell slot.

Especially since there's only about a 1/3 chance you might get something good out of it. I'd also like to add Nahal's Reckless Dweomer into the game at some point, perhaps as a bonus floating spell slot (akin to Pact Magic) that always triggers a Wild Surge.

 

[Stalker0]

Sorcerers post tasha's are wildly different beasts than they were back in 2014, and I fully expect every sorcerer subclass to be reworked to match them. When combined with the new origin feats, I managed to make a level 5 sorcerer that had double the spells of a traditional human draconic sorcerer.

I will agree here. While I personally would like to see sorceror's "pushed" more, I think their main "break" is in the original subclass design. Retool the subclasses to all include solid themed spell lists and good abilities, and your 80% of the way there. And one more key thing for flavor, some form of eschew materials to remove non-gp spell components. I'm sorry but its ludicrous that our natural spellcaster has to go find bat guano to fuel their powers, absolutely not.

Now I do think some utility spells should be added to the sorc's list, while there are a few I can respect as it might have some wonky power spikes with metamagic, a lot of the spell denials just feel downright arbitrary. When in doubt, the sorc should have every spell a wizard has, and then only remove a very small selection based on metamagic stacking concerns.

 

[TwoSix]

Still wish we had ended up with the DnD Next playtest sorcerer instead of what we got. But from asking around, that's an unpopular opinion.

Still think that could have been its own entirely unique class. In 5e those mechanics are still untouched.

I've seen a lot of love for the playtest sorcerer on threads around here (myself included). Gaining features as your resources deplete is a fascinating idea and could definitely be explored further.

 

[Vael]

I don't mind a power up for the Sorcerer, just 2 things:

1. I do like the current incarnation, most rebuilds I see are far too radical for me.
2. TBH, I think where they need to go is more Metamagic options and fuel for using Metamagic, not spells. That'll make them feel more unique.