D&D (2024) Can we have the sorcerer fixed now? (Plz, I beg you n_n°)

[Sir Brennen]

In 5e, spell prep isn't a hindrance, but a bonus. So sorcerers are trading more spells known for the privilege of not having a bonus. So they end up losing both ways? And well, what I meant by class spells was spells in the class spell list. Diversity of effects, sorcerers lack access to summoning, dimensional, and longterm effects. Even utility QoL spells.

Yeah, I'm currently playing a Shadow Sorcerer, and there are so few thematically appropriate spells. When Tasha's new summon spells came out, thankfully my DM let me take the Summon ShadowSpawn spell for my character, though it wasn't added to the Sorcerer list.

Again, I wonder how many spells will be on the Arcane list, and how many will be class-specific. A large core list will help with spell diversity quite a bit, and I think it probably will be.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sorcerers don't exist in a vacuum. There's also Wizards.

So first let's see if a sorcerer that had the Wizard Spell list and could know just as many spells as a wizard can prepare in a day - would that be too strong? I think not, wizards still would have arcane recovery and ritual casting along with some strong high level features. Meta magic is very strong though. So while simple, the problem with this solution is it leaves even less differentiation between the sorcerer and the wizard.

The first thing I would do for differentiation is to give sorcerers some new sorcerer exclusive spells - these would also all have unique effects you could gain by using sorcerery points while casting them. I would design these spells with the various subclasses in mind and add 1-2 of these spells per spell level to the subclass always known list.

I would do away with metamagic costing sorcery points and instead a sorcerers metamagics would be a list of always on effects. Twin spell and quicken would go away but most of the others could remain and potentially a few additional ones could be added. (You are already limited by spell slots for how many of these effects you can apply).

I think something like this could get people excited about sorcerers while not making them too strong and also further differentiating them from wizards.

 

[Minigiant]

Maybe the Sorcerer should be Arcane by default

Maybe the Sorcerer should use the Elemental spells list and their origin could add Arcane, Divine, Primal, Shadow or Psioinc List.

Aberrant Mind Elemental + Psioinc
Clockwork Soul Elemental +Clockwork Spells
Cosmic Sign Elemental + Arcane
Draconic Bloodline Elemental + Arcane
Divine Soul Elemental + Divine
Lunar Magic Elemental + Arcane + Divine
Noble Bloodline Elemental + Arcane
Shadow Magic Elemental + Shadow
Storm Sorcery Elemental + Primal
Wild Magic Elemental + Arcane

 

[Branduil]

Most of the problems with the Sorceror have to do with the Wizard constantly stealing their stuff. If we examine their thematic concepts, the Wizard should be the Arcane specialist, gaining tremendous power in his niche while being limited in other areas. The Sorceror should be the one whose power lies in the breadth of his magic, up to being able to change the nature of spells themselves with metamagic. So really, it should be the Sorceror who has more "spells known" than the Wizard, because the Sorcerer knows magic innately, but they should cast less often than the Wizard.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

Most of the problems with the Sorceror have to do with the Wizard constantly stealing their stuff. If we examine their thematic concepts, the Wizard should be the Arcane specialist, gaining tremendous power in his niche while being limited in other areas. The Sorceror should be the one whose power lies in the breadth of his magic, up to being able to change the nature of spells themselves with metamagic. So really, it should be the Sorceror who has more "spells known" than the Wizard, because the Sorcerer knows magic innately, but they should cast less often than the Wizard.

I personally think that Wizard should be able to prepare all the spell of their school (no matter which ''spell list'' they are from) and only a few from the other schools. And add metamagic without Font of Sorcery (that always felt more science-y) and their special ritual feature + Tasha's Magical Guidance.

Sorcerer should just be able to to pick from any list, any school. They are magic incarnate, they dont have to bow to the generic classification of spells. They should be the ones with arcane recovery and at-will leveled spells at high level. Throw in some of the features that were cut from Tasha's, but fueled by slots (same with the archetypes' feature requiring Sorcery Points):

Empowering Reserves
When you make an ability check on your turn, you can spend 2 sorcery points to gain advantage on the check.

Imbuing Touch
As an action, you can touch one nonmagical weapon and spend 2 sorcery points to imbue it with magic for 1 minute. For the duration, the weapon is considered magical for the purpose of overcoming immunity and resistance to nonmagical attacks.

Sorcerous Fortitude
As an action, you can spend any number of sorcery points to roll a d4 for each point expended. You gain a number of temporary hit points equal to the total rolled.

Having features fueled by slots would be a nice way to compensate the lack of sorcerer-restricted spells.

 

[Vael]

Most of the problems with the Sorceror have to do with the Wizard constantly stealing their stuff. If we examine their thematic concepts, the Wizard should be the Arcane specialist, gaining tremendous power in his niche while being limited in other areas. The Sorceror should be the one whose power lies in the breadth of his magic, up to being able to change the nature of spells themselves with metamagic. So really, it should be the Sorceror who has more "spells known" than the Wizard, because the Sorcerer knows magic innately, but they should cast less often than the Wizard.

Huh. I do go the other way, because Wizards can learn spells from spell books, the network of wizards allows them access to more spells. So it does make sense to me that Wizards has more spells. But Sorcerers innately know their spells, so being able to riff on them and modify them on the fly (ie, use metamagic), makes sense to me. Wizards are mathematicians, Sorcerers are artists.

This is why I don't want a radically new Sorcerer, I think they got pretty close with the 5e version. Really, give them a few more resources: spells and metamagic, rebalance the metamagic ('cause the difference between them is stark) and I'll be happy. I've played a few Sorcerers, they aren't bad, just ... tight.

 

[Eric V]

I'd like to see something really different for sorcerers to make them stand out. Imagine if sorcery points were rolled into spell points, but then gave sorcerers way more options on how to use the points, to really give them that "font of magic" or "raw, untamed power" or "member of the X-Men" kind of feel.

For example, they could spend points to heal themselves. To recharge items. Conversely, they could drain charges from items to get more spell points! They could use them to enhance their bodies (gain greater move speed, thp, breathe water, sprout wings, gain temporary resistance, whatever). You could let them cast any spell, but it costs double, or something, if it's not one of their practiced spells. Give them a special attack that, when it hits, does no hp damage, but steals a spell or spells from the target and grants the sorcerer spell points. Etc.

I am just spitballing, coming up with these on the fly, but it's just to point out that there's a LOT of design space for the sorcerer beyond what we have.

 

[DeviousQuail]

Metamagic points should be scrapped entirely. Instead, tie those effects to upcasting spells. Upcast by one level and add a lesser metamagic feature for free. Upcast by two levels and you get one of the more powerful effects for free. You remove something that requires tracking and there is an inherent limit to how often you can do it.

Tasha's kinda nailed it with the sorcerer additional spells. I would be shocked if that doesn't get added in 1D&D.

Getting rid of material components, at least those without a GP cost, is something I didn't know I wanted until I read this thread.

 

[Marandahir]

Make Sorcerers cast with Sorcery Points (using the DMG Spell Points list variant rule, and add their Sorcery Point pool to the total amount).

Let Sorcerers use either Int or Cha - allowing for Psions and Wilders to be built with them, easily.

They can still use their Sorcery+Spell points on either Metamagic or Spells, but no need for Adam Smith Hates Your Guts exchange rates between the two.

 

[This Effin’ GM]

Spitballing Three fixes to the sorcerer.

1. Fix magic in general by creating different magic traditions and balancing them. Arcane. Primal. Divine. Somethingoccultbutnotnamedoccult.

2. Sorcerer gets access to tradition based on bloodline rather than just straight arcane. Each archetype has a curated auto added to list known, which may or may not be spells in the tradition they choose from.

3. Make a fiend sorcerer archetype. It’s the most obvious subtype that doesn’t exist, considering tieflings. Just do it.

4. I said 3 but one more thing: keep its identity intact by making archetypes that fit the idea of the “born with this”. Like mutants. Sorcerers are basically mutants. Weird that in level up it’s with the warlock (bargain for your power) rather than the sorcerer.

Alternative fix.

No tradition for sorcerer at all but instead look at how the Mystic from UA divided spells into different categories and give the sorcerer that kind of magic. This makes a ton of thematic sense, they would feel different from wizard entirely.

Alternative fix.

Throw them out. Make a sorcerer subtype for the wizard. Give them the metamagic as their class ability, with the type of metamagic they have access to based on bloodline. Allow them to use charisma instead of intelligence if they wish. Allow them to ignore the need for the book.