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Cantrips? Can do!

If they only change one thing, just one thing, in fourth edition, I hope they change the rules for cantrips (and orisons). A 20th level wizard can cast three or four ninth level spells. He can stop time, change into anything, undo the fabric of reality.
But he can't cast detect magic more than four times in a day.
Bad rule in 3E. Still bad in 3.5.
Higher hopes for 4E?
 

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Thaniel

First Post
Most likely Detect Magic will be in the 'at will' list Wizards get. If they have it prepared, they can cast it continuously, but it takes up one of their 'at will' slots. or something like that.
 


Wormwood

Adventurer
I've been allowing casters to use 0-level spells at-will for two months now. Works fine for us.

So yes, I definitely support a complete revision in 4e.
 

Kae'Yoss

First Post
Cantrip-like effects will probably be available all day at absolutely no cost. After all, wizards will be able to blast half the battlefield to Kingdom Come all day long, I'm sure he'll be able to make his water taste like ale or levitate small gold coints around all day.
 

an_idol_mind

Explorer
STARP_Social_Officer said:
If they only change one thing, just one thing, in fourth edition, I hope they change the rules for cantrips (and orisons). A 20th level wizard can cast three or four ninth level spells. He can stop time, change into anything, undo the fabric of reality.
But he can't cast detect magic more than four times in a day.
Bad rule in 3E. Still bad in 3.5.
Higher hopes for 4E?

As a minor niggle, said wizard can cast detect magic more times per day. It just costs a higher-level spell slot after that.

That said, cantrips will probably be workable at will from here on out.
 

Celebrim

Legend
Considering that spell levels as we know them are going away, I think its safe to say that cantrips as we understand them are also going away.

From what we can tell of the system, a wizard will likely have 3 sorts of slots: at will, per encounter, and daily.

His at will and per encounter abilities are likely chosen much like feats. You pick a spell of the appropriate level from the appropriate silo and know you 'know' that spell.

At will abilities are likely to be 'warlock-like' blast abilities: ray of frost, flaming hands, magic missile, scorching ray, acid missiles, enervation, etc.

Per encounter abilities are likely to be offensive and defensive area of effect spells and short term (duration of encounter) buffs: shield, fog cloud, 'acid bog', invisibility, fireball, blink, cone of cold, bull's strength, etc.

The per day abilities are likely to be the big game breaking utility spells: speak with the dead, know alignment, teleport, passwall, wish, etc. (and in the case of clerics, healing spells).

A first level wizard is likely to look something like this:
1 at will spell that looks something like a cantrip (say 'Ray of Frost' at will)
3 other spells that correspond to current cantrips (light, detect magic, ghost sound)
1 per encounter spell that corresponds to current 1st level spells (say Color Spray)
1 daily 1st level spell (Sleep)

At will and per encounter effects seem like they are tied to the wizard's wand or staff, and daily ones will probably still be largely Vancian (spellbooks, components, etc.) Apparantly you can get 'Wands +1' so that for example, your 'Ray of Frost' would now do 1d3+1 damage. You also apparantly get feats that let you spontaneously metamagic your wand effects once per encounter. For example, I can imagine a feat that lets you use one of your at will blast effects in a spray that effects all targets in an area once per encounter, or one that lets you add a bull rush 'push' attack to your wand attack once per encounter.
 

JRRNeiklot

First Post
Cantrips are one thing I wouldn't mind seeing use an "at will" mechanic. As long as they ditch any damaging spells like ray of frost. Cantrips are tricks and shouldn't be able to hurt someone. In 3e, ray of frost could kill an orc (well, bring him to 0 hit points anyway.) If ray of flame is available at will, a first level wizard could burn down entire cities. Or a good portion of one before he is caught. "Arson? Me? I just gave him the finger!"
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Dragonblade said:
Wizards will have a number of "at-will" magical abilities and attacks in 4e. I suspect this issue won't even be an issue in 4e.
Hopefully Prestidigitation and some of the other non-combat cantrips will make the list.

Otherwise, HOUSE RULE! :D
 

FickleGM

Explorer
I wouldn't mind seeing a skill in 4e that does for minor uses of magic what the Use the Force skill in SWSE does for minor uses of the force.

Of course, Use the Force has other uses (like activating force powers), so perhaps it could be rolled into an existing D&D skill that has other uses, like Spellcraft.
 

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