Casters vs Mundanes in your experience

[ForeverSlayer]

We never had any problems in our games with spellcasters of any type.

A few reasons why.

1: Wizards- Spell shops weren't around every corner and random spellbooks were few and far between. You were mostly stuck with your 2 spells per level.

2: Druids- We didn't have any problems with druids because of this. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with. For example, a druid who has never been outside a temperate forest could not become a polar bear. Our DM actually enforced this so there was no flipping through the Monster Manuals to find the most powerful creature to Wild Shape in to.

3: Cleric- Nightsticks had to be approved of by the DM and if they were then you were only allowed to use 1. Also, if you burned all of your Turn Undead to power yourself up we were usually hit with tons of undead followed by a caster who specialized in Dispel Magic. We also found that even after those buffs the cleric couldn't out do the fighter because of the sheer number of bonus feats that the fighter got.

Anything outside of core had to be approved by the DM.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

I tend to find that a lot of people forget that the rogue has access to Use Magic Device which allows him to do something that not other spellcasting class can do, use "any" magic item that exists.

A rogue plus Magic Device Attunement equals ready to rock and roll.

A Wizard would have to be an idiot to waste spell slots trying to impersonate the rogue and still wouldn't be able to cover everything.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Just wanted to say that a well built fighter plus Robillard's Gambit was great!

 

[Hussar]

We never had any problems in our games with spellcasters of any type.

A few reasons why.

1: Wizards- Spell shops weren't around every corner and random spellbooks were few and far between. You were mostly stuck with your 2 spells per level.
/snip

I tend to find that a lot of people forget that the rogue has access to Use Magic Device which allows him to do something that not other spellcasting class can do, use "any" magic item that exists.

A rogue plus Magic Device Attunement equals ready to rock and roll.

A Wizard would have to be an idiot to waste spell slots trying to impersonate the rogue and still wouldn't be able to cover everything.

Hrm, interesting. The rogue can rock because he can access all these magic items that apparently the wizard never gets to access. I mean, why would you bother handing the wand you just found to the rogue and not the wizard or cleric who can automatically use it?

So, yes, if you completely ignore the 3e guidelines on campaign creation (buying guidelines for towns in particular) and for some bizarre reason dump all the magic goodies on the rogue, then yes, you can achieve parity.

Not that there's anything wrong with the baseline rules . After all, if there was nothing wrong, then why would you completely ignore them?

 

[Elf Witch]

I found concentration checks in 3rd ed to be fairly trivial - all casters maxed out concentration every level. Once you have mirror image or stoneskin up (or both!) the risk was pretty low!

Also the idea that spells can be interrupted actually reinforces the idea that mundanes are there to protect the squishes and reinforces the idea that party should 'turtle' forward in formation.

Here again this is not a magical problem but a problem that skills can be max out to easily. That is a huge complaint I have with skills in 3E and not just with wizards but with all classes. I have seen rogues get to the point that never fail an open lock or disable trap roll.

Make it harder to max out skills and certain problems cease to exist.

WE have a house rule that has helped with this a 1 on a skill check is a -10 a 20 is a +10.

I don't have an issue with spells being interrupted I do if they wizard does not get a save. I hated the I get hit with a pebble in 2E and take 1 point of damage and there goes my spell. That sucked big time.

If you make the wizard totally dependent on the party to protect them otherwise they are next to useless it can really hamper the player playing the wizard if he plays with a party that does its own thing. I have seen parties that play this way.

So I think a balance should be struck between making the wizard completely squishy and allowing the wizard a little protection when it comes to casting in combat.

Getting rid of the annoying 5 foot step would help too.

 

[JamesonCourage]

After all, if there was nothing wrong, then why would you completely ignore them?

While I think there is something wrong with the baseline rules, I completely ignored them for entirely different reasons than balance issues. I like my campaign worlds homebrew and done my way, and the 3.X DMG isn't going to decide that for me. Thus the fate of all magic items, mundane items, high levels found in populations, etc. all go out the window. I actually think it's probably a fault to design the game with those things in mind, if for no other reason than for homebrew settings (of which there seems to be many). As always, play what you like

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Hrm, interesting. The rogue can rock because he can access all these magic items that apparently the wizard never gets to access. I mean, why would you bother handing the wand you just found to the rogue and not the wizard or cleric who can automatically use it?

So, yes, if you completely ignore the 3e guidelines on campaign creation (buying guidelines for towns in particular) and for some bizarre reason dump all the magic goodies on the rogue, then yes, you can achieve parity.

Not that there's anything wrong with the baseline rules . After all, if there was nothing wrong, then why would you completely ignore them?

Nope, the rogue rocked anyway on top of being able to use any magic item in the game. Rocks X 2

Remember, guidelines were there to help DM's who didn't want to bother creating their own towns and how they wanted them to run. Guidelines are guidelines and not rules. Can't use that to support your argument I'm afraid. The DMG also says that it's fine for DM's to use their own methods.

Nothing has been ignored in what I said. You are trying so hard to sit there and prove some of us wrong when we said we didn't have any problems.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

While I think there is something wrong with the baseline rules, I completely ignored them for entirely different reasons than balance issues. I like my campaign worlds homebrew and done my way, and the 3.X DMG isn't going to decide that for me. Thus the fate of all magic items, mundane items, high levels found in populations, etc. all go out the window. I actually think it's probably a fault to design the game with those things in mind, if for no other reason than for homebrew settings (of which there seems to be many). As always, play what you like

What baseline rules is he even talking about? What magic item shops and spellbooks being all over the place is a baseline rule? Sure it says that spellcasters can share spellbooks with each other no problem, remember that word "can" which isn't the same as "do".

 

[Elf Witch]

That's all fine 'n' dandy at lower levels.

But almost every higher level experience I've had (especially in 3E) has been the DM trying to drain the casters' spell slots and trying to keep the casters from having any downtime to make items.

Surprise! Random Encounter! Orcs with axes and healing potions for you to steal!

Poor Application of renouncement management was a big issue. 4E fixed it... in ways that many people didn't like... Uniformity.

Again I have played high level DnD and with the right DM it balances out. DMs should control the pace of the game and while I think if a player has designed his wizard to create items he should get the ability to do so some of the time but not to extent that they are going crazy making them.

Also every member of the party should be equipped with magic items that allow them to do things like fly, see invisibility, dimension door. I think people forget that DnD is about magic always has been. It is not really suited to be played as a low magic game not at high levels.

I also think magic items are to cheap and should cost more to make.

Part of managing a high level game is getting the entire party to use resources. Also as DM you know what the party can do plan around that. They are going up against high powered BBEG who have the resources to learn about some of the parties abilities and plan according.

Every high big encounter I played with a good DM required the entire party working together to not only defeat the bad guys but not die.

 

[Minigiant]

We never had any problems in our games with spellcasters of any type.

A few reasons why.

1: Wizards- Spell shops weren't around every corner and random spellbooks were few and far between. You were mostly stuck with your 2 spells per level.

2 spells a level plus the occasional found scroll is usually enough. The problem is not access to spells. It is getting high enough that you can cast them without draining a large percentage of your resources.

The second the DM gives a wizard a week of downtime and enough gold... it's all over, man.

2: Druids- We didn't have any problems with druids because of this. The form chosen must be that of an animal the druid is familiar with. For example, a druid who has never been outside a temperate forest could not become a polar bear. Our DM actually enforced this so there was no flipping through the Monster Manuals to find the most powerful creature to Wild Shape in to.

Dire animals and regular brown bears are cool. Wild shape is just bad. Bad bad. Tolerable when you fist get it but after a few levels... house rules are required.

3: Cleric- Nightsticks had to be approved of by the DM and if they were then you were only allowed to use 1. Also, if you burned all of your Turn Undead to power yourself up we were usually hit with tons of undead followed by a caster who specialized in Dispel Magic. We also found that even after those buffs the cleric couldn't out do the fighter because of the sheer number of bonus feats that the fighter got.

Anything outside of core had to be approved by the DM.

Clerics actually aren't that bad. Most of the cheesy cleric stuff requires 15 minute days, high levels, or non-core stuff. Core clerics are fine until you hit the teens.