D&D 5E Casting Wish To Duplicate Homebrew Spells

[Mort]

By logic, a tweaked existing spell would be a homebrew spell, since a homebrew spell by definition is a non-[official content] spell, therefore a tweaked existing spell, which is not [official content], IS homebrew.

A homebrew spell is a non-existing spell that the character has developed with the ok of the DM (or that the DM has developed).

There are specific guidelines in the DMG (chapter 9).

Once the spell is created, sure it's homebrew, but it's an existing spell in the campaign world.

Using wish to create a spell "on the fly," that's not covered by ANY other spell effects from ANY spell lists (which is what you seem to be proposing) allows for HUGE versatility. That seems the prevue of the second part of wish.

 

[Guest 7034872]

By logic, a tweaked existing spell would be a homebrew spell, since a homebrew spell by definition is a non-[official content] spell, therefore a tweaked existing spell, which is not [official content], IS homebrew.

Mm, I suspect what folks are getting at here is that a spell already homebrewed by the DM is very different from a spell tweaked on the fly by a player. I could be misreading them, but that's my sense from the comments. And if that is their point, then I agree with them: if the DM has made a spell and dictated it's L8 or lower, then I figure that's that, whereas if a player on the fly wants to tweak some spell from one of the books, that's a very different proposition. The former is already set as L8 or lower by DM decree; the latter is not.

EDIT: Oops! Just saw Mort's comment. So yeah--I'm with Mort on this.

 

[Mort]

Look, many spells are already "I win" buttons. 5e has lessened that, but it's still a thing.

One control on that is D&D spells do exactly what they are supposed to do and no more.

Allowing to break that paradigm by having an infinitely versatile "I win" button is, IMO, too much.

Now, Wish already does that somewhat part 1 by allowing you to cast almost any spell and part 2 of the spell for almost anything. But there are repercussions to using part 2 (potentially REALLY serious ones if you get unlucky) - so there is a built-in control.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

You asked for opinions and are getting them. Feel free to disagree, but no need to ask for opinions and the disparage the ones you don't like!

I only brought up references and logic to explain my disagreement as part of civil discourse, which was not meant to be disparagement.

If the worry is balance and shenanigans, I think a reasonable compromise would be to set an Intelligence (Arcana) check (or perhaps a different ability modifier) with a reasonable DC depending on what the Wish is actually being used to duplicate. I'd set the DC at 0 if it's something simple like giving Magic Missile an extra 100 feet of range for the cast. For the purpose of flavor, one could say it's how well the result can be visualized or calculated.

 

[LordEntrails]

Perhaps not in your campaign, which is your prerogative as a DM, but also not forbidding other DMs from allowing it as per the text of the spell itself.

How would any of us prevent another DM from running their table their way?

 

[Mort]

I only brought up references and logic to explain my disagreement as part of civil discourse, which was not meant to be disparagement.

If the worry is balance and shenanigans, I think a reasonable compromise would be to set an Intelligence (Arcana) check (or perhaps a different ability modifier) with a reasonable DC depending on what the Wish is actually being used to duplicate. I'd set the DC at 0 if it's something simple like giving Magic Missile an extra 100 feet of range for the cast. For the purpose of flavor, one could say it's how well the result can be visualized or calculated.

Just recognize that if you allow modification of any existing spell or creating a new spell, on the fly - what you are essentially doing is eliminating part 2 of wish: because that's all part 2 really saying - if an existing spell doesn't cover something, you can do it, but there's a cost and a risk.

I prefer leaving that intact!

 

[Storyteller Hero]

How would any of us prevent another DM from running their table their way?

Exactly. That was the point I was trying to make in response to Mort's "You don't get to say..." which was said in response to me describing that a DM determines what is or isn't established in their campaign world.

Just recognize that if you allow modification of any existing spell or creating a new spell, on the fly - what you are essentially doing is eliminating part 2 of wish: because that's all part 2 really saying - if an existing spell doesn't cover something, you can do it, but there's a cost and a risk.

I prefer leaving that intact!

The Wish spell says "You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples." and "the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong" -- the text itself doesn't say there MUST be a risk. Since the DM has latitude according to the spell text, I think it would be reasonable to allow safe spell tweaking for at least the lower level spells, and perhaps even the mid to higher level spells, depending on WHAT the tweak is.

 

[Mort]

The Wish spell says "You might be able to achieve something beyond the scope of the above examples." and "the greater the wish, the greater the likelihood that something goes wrong" -- the text itself doesn't say there MUST be a risk. Since the DM has latitude according to the spell text, I think it would be reasonable to allow safe spell tweaking for at least the lower level spells, and perhaps even the mid to higher level spells, depending on WHAT the tweak is.

You're quoting the line AFTER the second
part of wish, so yeah consequences are intended there!

If you're running a high level campaign, mages are already powerful, this will increase that further.

 

[Storyteller Hero]

You're quoting the line AFTER the second
part of wish, so yeah consequences are intended there!

If you're running a high level campaign, mages are already powerful, this will increase that further.

Yes they are powerful, but I think that something like a low level spell getting tweaked to have better range wouldn't be all that horrible to give at that point, especially when a 9th level spell slot is used for it. I feel that Wish being 9th level and not spammable like a cantrip does a lot to justify letting the player cut loose with their imagination up to a point.

 

[Mort]

FYI. the poll is quite misleading because it asks can wish cast a tweaked spell - period. Which of course it should/can.

But your actual question is "can Wish cast a not currently existing spell on the fly and without consequences." I suspect the yeah's would be less!