Casual Player, Casual Roleplaying, Sucking the Wonder Away

[Filcher]

My vote goes with the folks who advocate it in game. In a certain light, her announcing herself could be seen as very sophisticated roleplaying --- despite being on the run, the character is so attached to what she was outside of her marriage that she just *needs* to know that she is loved and adored ... even though it endangers her life.

I say give the character what the player wants. She IS famous. So famous that she is recognized and adored by her fans, and envied by her peers. And this is a huge problem, because it means it is really easy for the villains to track her down.

Don't TELL the player she ought to be scared for her PC's life, make her FEEL it instead.

 

[Filcher]

re: the "hiding out badly in Sharn" thing. Where you see her character's actions as problematic, I see the next few adventures writing themselves. If she keeps asking to be recognized, by all means have people recognize her, and then sick their pursuers on the party. A vain bard and her series of hair-breadth escapes --if she's lucky-- sounds like a blast, not to mention a good way to build a little intra-party tension (if you're players go in for that sort of thing). Mind you, I'm not suggesting you punish the bard for her actions, I'm saying you should use the players actions as a springboard into some exciting, level-appropriate encounters.

Exactly.

And after a few nasty encounters, the other PCs will start riding her to keep her mouth shut.

 

[Oryan77]

This thing with the roleplaying is just one thing that really bugs, and I'm trying to find a way to work around it before it goes from just bugging to seriously irking me. I probably should just suck it up though.

I totally know where you're coming from. I can think of several players I used to DM that I felt the same way about. The bad thing is, there's really nothing you'll be able to do besides not playing with her, or dealing with it yourself.

I've attempted to steer players gaming style & roleplaying abilities to be more in line with me and other players in the group. Sometimes they really try to "improve", but this is sort of like asking a crackhead to go clean. It sounds good but it's very difficult to change a persons habit. I've never seen it happen to a player and I eventually end up not gaming with them anymore because it's too hard for me to deal with...I'm not a patient person :\

If you're like me, then you'll always be annoyed with her gameplay. But if you are able to deal with her, maybe a short break from the game will help you go easy on her. Take a break from DMing and then see if she still grinds on you. Just remember that she's not really the one with a problem...you are. She's not doing anything wrong, it's just not what you want in your game. Keep that in mind and maybe it'll help you put up with her

You could also try to have fun with her quirks. If she expects NPC's to think she's famous, stay in character and have the NPCs be sarcastic towards her, "Ohhhhh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were THE *insert her PC name here*!" If she's being ridiculous, then have NPCs treat her ridiculous. If she complains out of character that she should be famous, just reply with, "well obviously she thinks she's more popular than she really is. Maybe she needs to do more gigs". Her reactions towards that could create some good in-game scenarios for your group.

 

[Isida Kep'Tukari]

Ya know, this is why I come to these boards and ask random strangers to help me solve my problems. Sometimes I need a rather pointed bat-upside-the-head kind of clue, and fellow players and friends, who have to see me on a regular basis, won't be as... hmm... forthright as strangers who've never met me.

So, I will be taking the suggestions to go with her desire for fame (and subsequent consequences) and see where this takes us. Wonder, I hope, will come.

P.S. Just FYI, I am a woman also, so perhaps I can try to draw her in with some squealing happy fans? Hee hee, that could be fun.

 

[Mallus]

You could also try to have fun with her quirks. If she expects NPC's to think she's famous, stay in character and have the NPCs be sarcastic towards her, "Ohhhhh, I'm sorry, I didn't know you were THE *insert her PC name here*!"

Ridiculing someone when their not down with it, even by proxy, isn't "having fun with", it's "having fun at the expense of". You're advising the O.P to be a prick... which is bad advice.

If she's being ridiculous, then have NPCs treat her ridiculous.

It's ridiculous to want to play a famous singer? Compared to wanting to play pointy-eared elves and pointy-hatted wizards?

If she complains out of character that she should be famous, just reply with, "well obviously she thinks she's more popular than she really is. Maybe she needs to do more gigs". Her reactions towards that could create some good in-game scenarios for your group.

What would this do, besides engender a lot of ill will with the player in question? It's all well and good to use cutting and sarcastic NPC's when the situtation call for it. But consistently ridiculing/undercutting a PC from the get-go, because you disagree with how the player wants to play their own character, is just bad form.

Like it or not, the DM is responsible for helping the players realize their characters. Shirk that responsibility and you're not doing your job.

 

[Oryan77]

Ridiculing someone when their not down with it, even by proxy, isn't "having fun with", it's "having fun at the expense of". You're advising the O.P to be a prick... which is bad advice.

No...I'm advising the NPCs to be real, which is quite good advice When I know that commoners in my city don't know a person is famous, then I will have them react the way a commoner would react to a person that thinks she's famous and is not. I was thinking in character; while you're still thinking out of character.

It's ridiculous to want to play a famous singer? ...........because you disagree with how the player wants to play their own character, is just bad form.

I didn't notice the OP stating up front that this PCs character IS a celebrity...only that the player thinks the PC should be more of a celebrity than the DM considers her to be. I believe that players should make the type of PC that they want to make, but at some point the DM gets to put his/her foot down and say otherwise. A character concept of 'a struggling musician trying to make a name for herself' is non controlling to the game world. A character concept of 'a famous musician who's known to everyone' is an attempt at controlling the game world. You may allow that, but I require players to earn that fame in game; not just tell me that that's the way it is :\

Like it or not, the DM is responsible for helping the players realize their characters. Shirk that responsibility and you're not doing your job.

Yep, I agree. But I believe the DM attempted to do that. The DM already told the player that the NPCs have never heard of her PC. If at that point the player begins to argue with the DM on how the DM should run characters in the DMs game world & that these NPCs should know her PC, then I lose all respect for that person as a player. I have no patience with disruptive and demanding players like this and there's too many gamers that do this kind of stuff to a DM. If the responses are kept in-game and are logical character reactions, then I see no problem giving the PC (not the player) a hard time.

But consistently ridiculing/undercutting a PC from the get-go, because you disagree with how the player wants to play their own character, is just bad form.

If I'm a player and a DM tells me via NPC that I'm not as famous as I assumed I was, then that's it...I don't freaking argue about it. I understand that I assumed too much and that the DM knows his world better than I do. I will instead think about ways to make myself famous rather than try to tell the DM how his world should work. If the PC continues to ridicule herself by acting like an ass infront of NPCs, then don't accuse the DM of being the one doing all the ridiculing.

 

[prospero63]

What else can I do to draw this player further into the wonder of the game? Should I focus a few more scenes on her? Do I bite the bullet and have a private conversation or e-mail? What do you people suggest to bring the glory back to the game?

Keep killing her characters till she quits and you find a better player.

 

[S'mon]

If you actually like this person well enough, I would talk to her, find out what she wants from the game, and attempt to incorporate that into the game. For instance, all her characters have a 'seen it all before' attitude - maybe she can play a thousand year old elf or similar who really *has* seen it all before. She wants her PC to be famous - let them be famous. In a game like D&D that ought to be easy to accommodate.

I do kinda get the impression that this woman simply grates on your nerves. It's best not to be passive-aggressive about it. If you decide you don't like GMing for her, you should let her know your play styles are incompatible and ask her to find another group.

 

[Spell]

Ridiculing someone when their not down with it, even by proxy, isn't "having fun with", it's "having fun at the expense of". You're advising the O.P to be a prick... which is bad advice.

i have to agree with mallus here. i used to poke a bit of fun to my players when their *characters* wanted to do something that i thought was quite out of the way... until i ended up in someone else's campaign and he did exactly that with my bard PC.

i tell you: it is *not* fun. especially because what might started innocently enough as a bit of ridicule on your character can quickly escalate to "yeah, whatever, he's joe the bard, he always talk nonsense... let's move on with the adventure" kind of thing.

it happened in that campaign and the sole result was that, at first, the group broke into faction (and i mean the players). later on, we just stopped showing up and talking to each other. we basically lost our friendship over a silly joke.

not a path i would recommend anyone going down to!

 

[Spell]

No...I'm advising the NPCs to be real, which is quite good advice

i understand where you are coming from... but it would work well for the group dynamics only if it was nearly immediately backed up by another NPC actually recognising the PC, or something similar.