Challenging an Epic Party

[jcayer]

So after 3.5 years, countless adventures, and far too much time in analysis paralysis about combat, my 4e campaign will wrap up in 2 sessions with a confrontation with Vecna.

I've got a party of 5, with immense synergy. I have barely been able to challenge them through the epic tier and I want to bring it for the last encounter. First off, they're almost impossible to kill. They can all stand up on their own, and the cleric is a healing machine.

I've decided the warlord is really the problem...it's like he makes up his own rules. All those bonuses he throws out always leave the monsters at the end of the initiative order, and the players hitting more often than not. Them going first really lets them control the battlefield and lock down the creatures.

So here are my thoughts for encountering Vecna. First off, many of Vecna's powers are garbage. Outside his aura, I'm probably tossing most of them.
Vecna will go first in combat, regardless of what he rolls...he's a god.
The room will be very large and after the first, maybe second round, Vecna will, "Shatter the battlefield", resulting in most of the floor falling away into lava and the players/monsters being redistributed around the room.

This will destroy their dominance in the battlefield, and also separate them, limiting their synergistic abilities.
We've pretty much outlawed Stun in our games as that isn't fun for anyone, but Vecna will be immune to Daze and most other effects.

There will be a moderate amount of artillery as they've had trouble in large areas with ranged combatants.

There will certainly be several other large creatures to support him, but I'm now soliciting additional ideas. Both for synergistic monsters and just nasty things to do to level the battlefield.

 

[RangerWickett]

Here's my rule for any boss fight. F*** the rules. Come up with cool things that the players will enjoy and remember for years, and throw out normal conceptions of 'balance' and 'fair.' Present insurmountable problems -- invincible monsters, countdowns to death, an inability to use magic -- and then think of ways the PCs can really stretch their abilities to overcome them.

You want to encourage the PCs to show off their strengths, but that only works if their strength is the only way to counter a particular challenge.

Got a warlord who can hand out free attacks? Give Vecna (god of secrets) a Heisenberg's-Uncertainty-Principle power where he appears in four places at once and cannot be harmed unless all four versions are attacked simultaneously. (Once that happens, the effect ends and he switches to a different tactic.)

Anyone have a cool 'when you die' epic destiny power? Give them a reason to trigger it. Maybe there's a horrible soul-eating undead creature (devourer-esque) that has captured the souls of an entire world, and whenever you attack it you just kill poor innocents. Okay then; jump in that bastard's mouth and let him choke on you.

Wizard likes to deal with minions? Endless hordes of the dead swarming in from multiple directions, and they flow past the PCs, sucking out a few HP at a time, then fly to Vecna and heal him. The wizard has to deploy his powers to block their flow.

Only once these various hurdles are overcome does Vecna become vulnerable to conditions.

Y'know, stuff like that.



Oh, one final note. Never let them trip him. Nothing ruins a villain's cool worse than him falling on his butt. If they use a trip power against him, he should instead be slowed. If he's slid into dangerous terrain or would fall, he lands on his feet; if he makes his save to avoid it, he remains standing.

 

[Saagael]

Oh, one final note. Never let them trip him. Nothing ruins a villain's cool worse than him falling on his butt. If they use a trip power against him, he should instead be slowed. If he's slid into dangerous terrain or would fall, he lands on his feet; if he makes his save to avoid it, he remains standing.

Great note. Prone is almost as bad as stun. The way I've gotten around this: Give the big bad guys some kind of flight and make him immune to prone while flying. Two birds with one stone!

 

[Riastlin]

Putting Vecna first in the initiative order certainly helps. However, one of the best features I've found for solos is the ability to get a multitude of actions. The biggest vulnerability any solo has is its relative lack of actions. Therefore, I'd take a look at your party's potential initiative range. I've not reached epic tier yet, but I'm guessing that your party is likely to have everyone fall somewhere between 20 - 60 in the initiative order. So, assuming this is true, place Vecna at 60 in the order. And at 50. And 40. And 30. He is, after all, a god. He is also the god of secrets so its not out of the realm of possibility that he has developed the secret to manipulating time. Heck, combine this with what [MENTION=63]RangerWickett[/MENTION] suggests about the "4 Vecnas" and you even have a good explanation/description of what's going on.

I would also make sure that he has plenty of minor action and even free actions available. He should be doing something with each of his actions every turn. Whether its teleporting, attacking, moving, or messing with the battlefield. The last thing a god should do is "nothing".

Finally, give terrain effects that Vecna and his cohorts are immune to. Dropping the floor away to reveal massively hot lava? Great, give Vecna and his allies the ability to fly. Have an artifact that is exuding necrotic damage? Good thing Vecna and his undead allies are highly resistant/immune to necrotic damage.

Are you stacking the deck? Sure, but the PCs are also seeking out Vecna. Its not too likely that he would be caught off guard, and if he were, and was thoroughly unprepared, he'd get the heck outta Dodge before they could kill him. If they are attacking him on his turf, then it absolutely should feature a battlefield that is to his immense advantage.

 

[Traveon Wyvernspur]

I ran a 4E campaign that finished at the beginning of summer and had a similar thread asking for ideas on a final combat located here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-dis...ign-level-30-epic-end-campaign-encounter.html if you wanted some more ideas. I went with giving my BBEG last battle 3x per round, there were four devices the PCs had to stop to slow him down, lots of terrain and traps, and a bunch of other things going on as well. There are a TON of great ideas in this thread if you want to look it over.

 

[keterys]

Don't need to have him "win" initiative. It's Vecna, cheat even better.

Give them a relatively easy encounter to fight... let them win initiative, start blowing up everything in usual fashion, preferably burn off a couple killer abilities.

Then have Vecna enter.

And yeah, redesign him big time, since his stats (other than the aura) are _horrible_. Great aura, though

 

[pippenainteasy]

Vecna's aura to me is his greatest power; the 50 HP regen per round.

You want to make it challenging, you don't have to pump up Vecna's statblock...just put one of his servants like Kyuss (Level 31 Solo) or Osterneth (Level 29 Solo) next to him. Hell even both if you think your party is strong enough....