Chapter Two revised

[barsoomcore]

Hey guys. Here's a new version of Chapter Two with revisions based on discussions that have gone on. Some of the key changes:

Corrected misidentification of vehicles/vessels
-- thanks Wyvern!
Corrected use of size mods in Collision Checks
-- I don't think we need a special table. Just the inverse of the existing mods should do fine.
Added mechanic to determine which of several objects may be collided with
-- pretty simple, start with the biggest and work your way down. I don't imagine this situation will be very common, anyway.
Described head-on collisions
-- possibly not clear enough yet.
Described collisions for ground and water
-- The surface is always Colossal. Solid surfaces deal double damage and liquid surfaces deal normal damage. This means we don't need to describe a special case for landing on water.
Corrected problem with regaining control -- no skill check required
-- This solves Wyvern's problem of a pilot just walking away from a control in zero-g environments; it should be trivial to re-assert control. It is in all situations UNLESS a loss of control causes a vehicle to fail to travel its Minimum Speed, at which point we are plummeting and those rules apply.
Changed Spiral to Plummet
Added info to Plummet description
-- DC 20 to stop a plummet. Plummeting vessels are out of control and flat-footed.
Added note to encourage DMs to apply existing Stunts to myriad situations
-- just to say, we aren't trying to cover EVERY situation.
Altered Landing - simplified and provided examples
-- as a stunt it must be a move-equivalent action. This follows Wyvern's ideas pretty closely. I think the movement conditions are much easier to grasp now.
Corrected Landing DC -- now 15
-- This means that a pilot with only one rank can automatically land if he spends at least two rounds coming in (to gain a +4 bonus). Is that the idea?
Removed aborted landing rules
-- If you're on your way in and you change your mind there are no penalties or hoops to jump through. Just climb or turn or whatever. Don't see why you shouldn't be able to do that.
Simplified Take Off -- no extended Take Off rules
-- Since you can just keep trying to take off as long as you have runway, I don't see that a bonus is appropriate. Is it easier to take off after you've travelled more distance? Doesn't make sense and is complicated. Take Off is very simple now.
Simplified Hard Turn rules to match BlackJaw's original concept
-- DC 5/45 degrees of turn. Loss of control on a natural 1
Corrected Turn Mod application to Dive Attack
-- now applies.
Added failure risk to Complex Stunt
-- miss by 5, Out of Control
Removed Stunts: Regain Control and Break a Grapple
-- neither are needed. Regain control is a steer a vessel action. Use a s.a.v., have control. Simple. Stopping a plummet is a different story, handled under Plummeting rules. Breaking a Grapple is done by a successful grapple check as detailed in Combat.

And here are the goodies:

Chapter 2 Advanced Vessel Movement
Vessel movement can be much more complex than described in the previous chapter. Because these contraptions are traveling in three dimensions, they can maneuver up, down and even run the risk of crashing into each other. Pilots can perform death-defying stunts in order to increase their vessel's maneuverability, or just to recover control of a vessel plunging earthward in a deadly downward plummet.
Advanced movement includes such elements as Altitude (important for flying vessels), special maneuvers, special conditions vessels may find themselves in and Stunts, the trickiest maneuvers of all.

Creatures Vs. Vehicles
We promised to explain this, remember? Both creatures and vehicles can be vessels, in that they can transport characters into the air. There are some critical differences between the two types of vessels, however.
Creatures: The pilot of a creature is always the creature itself. The creature takes a steer a vessel action every round in which it moves any distance. For a creature, a steer a vessel action and a move action are identical while it is flying.
A flying creature automatically has +8 bonus to all Piloting skill checks. They can also take 10 on piloting checks even when stressed or in combat.
A creature's rider can attempt a Ride check in order to guide the creature's movement or encourage it to perform a stunt, but all required Piloting checks are always made by the creature. The rider can aid the creature's Piloting skill checks with successful Ride checks, just as outlined in core rulebook I, page 62, "Cooperation".
Vehicles: The pilot of a vehicle is whoever is currently at the controls. A vehicle may have more than one set of controls, but each round there can only be one pilot. Note that a vehicle, unlike a creature, cannot run or take a double move action. A pilot may take two steer a vessel actions in one round, but that only affects a vehicle's maneuverability, not the distance it can travel.

Moving In A Straight Line
Any vessel can move straight ahead any distance up to and including its Speed rating. A creature can move further than this by taking a run or a double move action. A vehicle, unlike a creature, can never move further in one round than its Speed rating. It cannot take a run action or a double move action.
Even if the pilot takes two steer a vessel actions in one round, a vehicle cannot move any further than its Speed rating. For each steer a vessel action the pilot takes, the pilot must decide how far the vehicle will travel during that action. If the pilot takes two steer a vessel actions, the pilot may use any portion of the vehicle's Speed during each action.
A pilot must take at least one steer a vessel action each round in order to maintain control of a vessel. If a round ever passes without a pilot taking at least one steer a vessel action to control the vessel, the vessel becomes out of control at the end of that round and a pilot must use a steer a vessel action to regain control of the vessel. See "Vessel Conditions", later in this chapter, for details on the effects of a vessel being out of control. Of course a creature is always in control unless the creature is incapacitated in some way.
Minimum Speed: Many vessels have a Minimum Speed rating. A vessel that fails to travel at least this distance in one round (not one action) will begin to plummet, plunging earthward uncontrollably. A pilot can use the Piloting skill to halt a plummeting vessel's death plunge.
Glide Speed: Vessels that require a power source to keep aloft will always have a Glide Speed rating. Should the vessel suffer a loss of power, it immediately uses its Glide Speed instead of its normal Speed rating. This change takes effect on the vessel's pilot's next action. Note that the vessel's Minimum Speed rating remains in effect, which may cause the vessel to immediately begin to plummet. A vessel that does not have a Glide Speed is unaffected by any loss of power.
Gliding vessels in a gravity environment cannot gain altitude unless the pilot succeeds at a Hard Climb stunt (see Altitude and Stunts sections later in this chapter).

Turn, Turn, Turn
Unlike creatures on the ground, vessels cannot travel in any direction they like. Vessels always travel in the direction they are facing unless the pilot performs a turn or a slide. A turn allows a vessel to change its facing by 45 degrees. A slide allows a vessel to travel at a 45-degree angle to their facing. These two maneuvers are illustrated in the diagram below:

<<insert Turn/Slide diagram>>

Maneuverability Ratings: Both turn and slide maneuvers are limited for each vessel by that vessel's Maneuverability Rating. These ratings are detailed in the chart below:

<<insert Maneuverability chart>>

Every vessel belongs one of the five Maneuverability Ratings.
Max Turn indicates the maximum number of 45-degree turns a vessel can make in a single grid square, or the maximum number of squares the vessel can slide at one time. In order to turn or slide further, the vessel must move forward at least one square (normally 30 feet for vessel-based maneuvering).
Total Turn indicates the maximum 45-degree turns a vessel can turn, or the maximum number of squares the vessel can slide in a single Steer a Vessel action. Each turn or slide a vessel makes per action is totalled up. No single turn or slide may exceed the vessel's Max Turn rating, and all turns and slides combined may not exceed the vessel's Total Turn rating.
Turn Modifier is a Skill check modifier that applies to Piloting skill checks made for certain Stunts. See the description of each Stunt to determine if the Turn Modifier applies.
Vehicle Modifiers: Vehicles may also have individual modifiers based on their construction. Each vehicle has a Handling Modifier which is applied to any Piloting skill checks made in that vessel. The Handling Modifier represents advanced components or special controls, magical enhancements and so on.
Glide Maneuverability: Vessels that require a power source to keep aloft will always have a Glide Maneuverability rating. Should the vessel suffer a loss of power, it immediately uses its Glide Maneuverability instead of its normal Maneuverability rating. This change takes effect on the vessel's pilot's next action.

Altitude
Vessels are considered to be at one of three altitudes: Low, Medium or High. The actual heights involved can vary by vessel type and size and are left deliberately undefined. Vessels at different altitudes cannot collide with each other, make melee attacks against each other or make ramming attacks against each other. Vessels at the same altitude who enter a square occupied by another vessel must check to avoid colliding (see Collisions, below) and may make melee or ramming attacks against each other. Only vessels at Low altitude may make melee attacks against non-flying targets.
Changing Altitude: A pilot can change a vessel's altitude one category upwards, or up to two categories downward, for each steer a vessel action she takes. The new altitude takes effect at the end of the action. A pilot may change a vessel's altitude two categories upwards if she succeeds at the Hard Climb stunt (see below). A pilot whose vessel is gliding must succeed at the Hard Climb stunt in order to change their vessel's altitude one category upwards.
Note that in a gravity environment, a vessel gains a +1 circumstance bonus to any attack rolls made against an opponent at a lower altitude.

Collisions and Crashing
Collision Check: Anytime a vessel enters a grid square occupied by another object, it must make a collision check to avoid hitting the object. A collision check is a Piloting skill check made against DC 10, minus the other object's size modifier. That is, avoiding a Fine vessel has a DC of 2 (10 - 8), while avoiding a Colossal vessel has a DC of 18 (10 - (-8)). The surface of a planet or world is always a Colossal object. Unless in combat or under other extraordinary conditions the pilot can take 10 on this check.
If the pilot fails this check his vessel is on a collision course with that object in that square. If the target object is a vessel, the pilot of that vessel may make an immediate collision check of his own as a free action. Success on this second collision check means that no collision takes place. Uncontrolled objects cannot avoid a collision and automatically fail this check. Only if both collision checks fail does a collision take place.
When there is more than one object in a square, the pilot must make a collision check against each object, starting with the largest and proceeding down through every object in the square in descending order of size. For objects of the same size determine randomly which one to check against first. If a pilot collides with one object he does not make any more collision checks and cannot collide with any other object in that square.
Collision Damage: Damage for a collision is calculated for both vessels using the size category of the opposing vessel. Refer to the Vessel Size chart in Chapter One to determine Collision Damage. The struck vessel (the one which occupied the square originally) may make a Reflex saving throw against DC 20 to reduce the collision damage by half. The colliding vessel gets no saving throw.
If a collision occurs head-on between two moving vessels (that is, the struck vessel moved at least one square last round, and the front of both vessels are within 45 degrees of each other) all damage is doubled. If the collision occurs with the ground or a ground-based object, the vessel takes damage as though striking a Colossal object head-on. Colliding with a body of water inflicts damage as though striking a Colossal object.
If the colliding vessel remains able to continue flying after taking collision damage, it may continue on past the struck vessel, maneuvering normally.
Regardless of whether or not the vessel collided with the object, it may pass through other squares occupied by the object without needing to make further collision checks. If the vessel enters a square not occupied by that object and subsequently enters a square that is occupied by the object, it must make another collision check.

Vessel Conditions
Under normal conditions a vessel behaves as expected and responds to the pilot's controls. There are three abnormal conditions a vessel may be in, however, none of which are at all pleasant: Out of Control, Gliding and Plummeting.
Out of Control: A vessel not controlled by a pilot is considered out of control. A vessel is not controlled if during the pilot's last round she failed to use at least one steer a vessel action to control the vessel. A vessel can also become uncontrolled if the pilot fails a piloting skill check for a stunt (see stunt descriptions for exact details). Should the pilot lose control of their vessel, the vessel automatically continues to travel in the direction it is current facing and at the same speed as it did the previous round. Because there is no one at the controls, the vessel is considered flat-footed, losing all Dex bonuses to AC. It also automatically fails any Reflex saves or piloting skill checks.
Any character who can reach the controls of an out of control vessel can use a steer a vessel action to regain control of the vessel automatically. No Piloting skill check is required.
Gliding: A vessel that has a Glide Speed or a Glide Maneuverability rating may be forced to glide. These vessels depend on some sort of power to keep them aloft, and should this power source ever be interrupted or exhausted, the vessel immediately begins to glide. Once a vessel begins gliding, its Glide Speed and/or its Glide Maneuverability replace its normal Speed or Maneuverability ratings.
A vessel that does not have a Glide Speed or a Glide Maneuverability always uses its normal Speed or Maneuverability rating.
Plummeting: When a vessel fails to travel its Minimum Speed in a single round, and has no other method or effect keeping it aloft, it begins to plummet. Such a vessel is plunging earthward at great speed. It will fall a single altitude category (from High to Medium, from Medium to Low or from Low to the ground) at the end of each round that it continues to plummet. A plummeting vessel is considered out of control until the plummet is stopped. It is flat-footed and loses all Dex bonuses to AC. It also automatically fails any Reflex Saves or piloting skill checks.
Anyone who can reach the controls of a plummeting vessel can attempt to stop the plummet with a Piloting skill check of DC 20. If they are successful, the vessel stops plummeting. The pilot resumes control of the vessel at whatever altitude the vessel had fallen to last round.
A vessel that continues plummeting the round after it has fallen to Low altitude will strike the ground at the end of that round. It will take triple normal crash damage upon impact, and all aboard will take normal falling damage for whatever height the vessel fell from.

Stunts
For each Steer a Vessel action a pilot takes, she is not only able to turn the vehicle up to its Total Turn value, she can also make a single special maneuver, called a Stunt. This means that in one round, a pilot can attempt a maximum of two Stunts, if she takes two Steer a Vessel actions.
Of course it is impossible to predict all of the crazy things characters are likely to do with their flying machines, but the Stunts described should cover most situations. The DM is encouraged to use his best judgment in applying these Stunts to unique scenarios.
Landing: Landing is the first stunt all new pilots are taught. In order to land, a vessel must start the pilot's action at Low altitude. It travels at least its Minimum Speed in a straight line and touches down at the end of the action. The pilot makes a Piloting skill check at DC 15 in order to successfully touch down. Under normal conditions the pilot may take 10 on this check. If this check is failed the vessel crashes.
After touchdown the vessel must move at least its Minimum Speed along the ground in a straight line. The pilot must use at least one more steer a vessel action to control the vessel during this movement (some vessels may require more actions, depending on the difference between their Minimum Speed and their Speed ratings). Any attempt to turn or stop the vessel before it has travelled at least its Minimum Speed requires a Piloting skill check against DC 25 to avoid crashing. If a pilot does not spend a steer a vessel action while the vessel is traveling its Minimum Speed, the vessel crashes immediately. A vessel that crashes after touchdown takes Collision Damage as though striking the ground (see Collisions and Crashing, above).
Extended Landing: Spending more time can make landing much easier on a pilot. A pilot can chose to spend up to three rounds before touchdown on the landing, gaining a +2 circumstance bonus to the landing check for each round spent. Each round must be spent on the landing, using two steer a vessel actions. Each steer vessel action must be spent traveling in a straight line at Low altitude no more than the vessel's Minimum Speed. The pilot does not make a Piloting skill check until touchdown, at which point the accumulated bonus applies.
Example 1: Arthak is trying to bring his cargo skimmer (Speed 240 ft., Minimum Speed 60 ft.) in for a landing. He lines up with the runway and drops to Low altitude. On his next action, he travels 60 feet in a straight line and touches down right at the top end of the runway. He rolls his Piloting skill check and gets a 19, enough for a successful touchdown. On his next action he continues controlling the vessel, moving it forward down the runway another 60 feet. A perfect landing.
Example 2: Silat is trying to coax a clumsy hulk (Speed 120 ft., Minimum Speed 80 ft.) into a landing. Like Arthak, she lines up with the runway and drops to Low altitude. Unfortunately, she has misjudged her distance and is already partway down the runway. On her next action she travels 80 feet in a straight line and touches down with only 60 feet of runway left. She makes her Piloting Skill check with a 21 and touches down safely, but now she has to travel her Minimum Speed in a straight line. She's already traveled 80 feet this round and so can only travel 40 feet on her next action, which she does. She starts her next round needing to travel another 40 feet in a straight line, but with only 20 feet of runway left. She's in trouble. Silat makes a desperate haul on the brakes, and rolls a Piloting skill check of 26, just enough to keep her vessel under control and stop it before the end of the runway.
This stunt does not make use of the Turn Modifier.
Taking Off: To take off, a pilot must use a steer a vessel action to move a vessel at least its Minimum Speed in a straight line along the ground. After the vessel has moved its Minimum Speed the pilot may make a Piloting skill check against a DC of 15 in order to successfully take off. A pilot can take 10 on this check. A failed Take-Off check results in the vessel remaining on the ground despite having moved its Minimum Speed down the runway. The pilot can attempt to Take Off again once the vessel has again moved at least its Minimum Speed.
This stunt does not make use of the Turn Modifier.
Hard Turn: A pilot can attempt to make a turn (or a slide; both can be employed in this stunt) that is not considered part of the vessel's normal Max Turn or Total Turn. A vessel can turn any amount using the Hard Turn stunt, unlimited by its Maneuverability Rating. The Piloting skill check DC for a Hard Turn is determined by the angle of the turn. For every 45 degrees of the attempted turn, the DC increases by 5. A 45 degree Hard Turn has a DC of 5, while a 180 degree Hard Turn has a DC of 20.
If the pilot fails his skill check, the vessel does not turn as much as intended and instead turns however much the skill check allows. Only on a natural roll of 1 does the pilot lose control of the vessel.
Example 1: Arthak is piloting a Clumsy Vessel. A Clumsy Vessel has a Max Turn of 0, so any turn is automatically a Hard Turn. Turning 45 degrees in one action has a DC of 5. Arthak rolls a 14 and makes the Hard Turn easily.
Example 2: Silat is piloting a Good Vessel, but she needs to double back in one square, making a 180 degree single turn. A Good Vessel has a Max Turn rating of 90 degrees, so Silat needs to make a Hard Turn of 90 degrees after completing the first 90 degrees in a normal turn. The DC for a 90 degree turn is 10, so Silat must make that or better on a Piloting Skill check in order to succeed.
This stunt makes use of the Turn Modifier.
Dive Attack: A pilot can attempt to dive downward at a target in order to increase the chance of hitting it. This is a dangerous maneuver as it requires a collision check to avoid actually ramming the target.
The pilot's vessel must begin the action one altitude category higher than the target. The pilot must end his action in a square occupied by the target, dropping one altitude category in order to enter the square at the appropriate height. A collision check must be made in order to avoid striking the target, unless a ramming attack is being attempted (see Combat, next section). The pilot may not take 10 on this collision check.
A dive attack can be attempted against a ground target if the vessel starts the action at Low altitude. The pilot still must make a collision check in order to avoid striking the ground. Should the vessel strike the ground it will take triple Collision Damage and all passengers take falling damage as appropriate for the height fallen. On a successful collision check the vessel is finishes the maneuver at Low altitude.
All attacks made by the pilot or any passengers on board his vessel who have readied an action for Dive Attack have a +2 circumstance bonus. Only passengers who have readied an action for this moment can take advantage of this bonus. Passengers whose initiative count is lower than the pilot's do not get the bonus applied to their attack rolls, nor do passengers who have already taken their action this round. If the pilot uses his first action for the Dive Attack stunt, he can use his second action that round in order to attack the target, gaining the +2 circumstance bonus to any attack rolls for that round.
If the pilot fails the collision check, the maneuver does not provide any attack bonuses, even if a collision does not actually occur.
This stunt makes use of the Turn Modifier.
Shake Loose: A pilot can attempt to create a shaky ride in order to knock over people on or in the vessel. Anyone or thing not secured on the vessel must make a Balance check to maintain their footing or a Climb check to retain their grip, depending on the situation. This an opposed skill check between the pilot and everyone on board not strapped down. The pilot makes a Piloting skill check, and everyone affected must beat that result or fall off the vessel.
Example: a pilot wants to shake a gremlin off his wing. He attempts a Shake Loose Stunt and rolls a total of 36 after modifiers. The Gremlin must now make a Balance check against DC 36 or be knocked from the wing. If instead of a gremlin on the wing, it had been a NPC secured with a rope and grappling hook, the check would have been a Climb check, with bonuses for the hook and rope. There is no special penalty for rolling low on this stunt.
This stunt makes use of the Turn Modifier.
Complex Stunt: An impressive maneuver of Piloting skill, such as a loop, barrel roll, or spin is worked into the vessel's movement. Besides looking impressive, it also has the benefit of making a vessel difficult to target. The vessel gains a Dodge bonus to AC based on the complexity of the stunt. The DC of the Piloting skill check is 5 + 5 for each Dodge bonus, so a +1 is DC 10, and +3 is DC 20. The maximum bonus possible is +5 DC 30. This bonus lasts until the pilot's next turn. Making two Complex Stunts in the same round does not stack. Only the highest bonus applies.
Missing a Complex Stunt check by more than 5 will result in the vessel becoming out of control.
This stunt makes use of the Turn Modifier.
Hard Climb: To climb faster than normal a pilot must use this stunt. Hard Climb allows a vessel to climb two altitude categories in a single action, instead of the usual one. A vessel that is currently gliding can climb a single altitude category only if the pilot succeeds at a Hard Climb stunt.
The Piloting skill check DC for a Hard Climb is 20. If the pilot fails the skill check, the vessel stalls and begins to plummet (see "plummeting", in Vessel Conditions).
This stunt does not make use of the Turn Modifier.

 

[Wyvern]

Here's my (belated) feedback on the latest revision of the rules. It may seem like I've still got a lot of nitpicks, but these are just working out the wrinkles. Overall, I'm very impressed with what you've written.

Starting at the top:

Described head-on collisions
-- possibly not clear enough yet.
Your description seemed perfectly clear to me. It's definitely much improved over the previous version.

Solid surfaces deal double damage and liquid surfaces deal normal damage. This means we don't need to describe a special case for landing on water.
This is a great way of handling it. However, I think we should still make note of the fact that some vessels can only land on water and others can only land on land. This should be a part of the vessel stat block, as in Spelljammer. Attempting a landing on the wrong surface will result in an automatic crash. Also, crashing on water will be followed by sinking.

...it should be trivial to reassert control.... UNLESS a loss of control causes a vehicle to fail to travel its Minimum Speed.
You ought to mention somewhere that the Minimum Speed requirement doesn't apply in zero-gravity conditions.

...a pilot with only one rank can automatically land if he spends at least two rounds coming in (to gain a +4 bonus). Is that the idea?
I hadn't considered it specifically in those terms, though that sounds reasonable. The reason I suggested DC 15 is simply because DC 20 seemed too high for landing, but DC 5 seemed too low for take-off, so I figured 15 and 10 would be a good compromise. I still think that the take-off DC should be 10, to make it easier than landing.

Loss of control on a natural 1.
There's one problem with this rule (which is the reason why I didn't suggest it myself); it means that all pilots, no matter what their skill level, suffer a 1 in 20 chance of losing control anytime they attempt a hard turn. Better to say that a natural 1 means that the pilot must make *another* Piloting check (or perhaps a Reflex save) at, say, DC 15 to avoid losing control.

Even if the pilot takes two steer a vessel actions in one round, a vehicle cannot move any further than its Speed rating.
I think this sentence is unnecessary, since you already said the same thing quite clearly in the previous paragraph, and the one before *that*.
I'd still like to see a stunt that allows the pilot to increase a vehicle's speed beyond its normal limit.

No single turn or slide may exceed the vessel's Max Turn rating, and all turns and slides combined may not exceed the vessel's Total Turn rating.
I still think it would be a good idea to add ", unless the pilot uses a Hard Turn stunt."

Vessels are considered to be at one of three altitudes: Low, Medium or High.
I'd still like to see a rule allowing vessels to fly at "Ground" level, to simulate barnstorming and other such maneuvers. It wouldn't require an actual Stunt, just a collision check each round to avoid crashing. This would be an exception to the rule that you don't need to make new collision checks when moving between squares occupied by the same object.

I really like the way you decided to handle collision checks with multiple objects, by the way.

A vessel that continues plummeting.... will take triple normal crash damage upon impact...
What exactly does "triple normal" mean? Since crashing into the ground already inflicts double damage, does this mean that plummeting into the ground multiplies the damage by six? And if not, then what about plummeting into water? Does that also inflict triple normal damage?

The pilot must use at least one more steer a vessel action to control the vessel [after landing]... (some vessels may require more actions, depending on the difference between their minimum speed and their Speed ratings).
I think this would be clearer if you replaced "Speed ratings" with "current speed". Incidentally, this raises the question of acceleration and deceleration. It's hardly realistic for a ship of any maneuverability class to be able to stop on a dime. So how do you propose we handle this?

On his next action, he travels 60 feet in a straight line and touches down right at the top end of the runway.
The way this is written, it seems as though the length of the runway doesn't matter when making an extended landing, since you don't touch down until the last round. That's why, in my version of the landing rules, I stated that touchdown occurs midway through the landing attempt (however long it might be). I admit it wasn't very elegant, and it got messy when dealing with premature landings. However, I've come up with a better solution which results in almost the same effect, but is much clearer. Let's say that an extended landing requires the pilot to move down the runway in a straight line *after touchdown* for a number of rounds equal to the number spent landing. (Of course, adding acceleration/deceleration rules could complicate this, but we'd need to see how such rules actually turn out before thinking about a solution.)

Other than this, the take-off and landing rules are much improved. However, you forgot to mention hovering vehicles (those with a minimum speed of zero). As I said before, I think they should get a flat +5 bonus to take-off and landing checks if they spend a full round on them.

By the way, are flying creatures required to make take-off and landing checks too?

Anyone or thing not secured on the vessel must make a Balance check to maintain their footing or a Climb check to retain their grip, depending on the situation.
This could still use some clarification regarding which check to make when (i.e. do you have to have climbing gear to make a Climb check, or do you simply need something you can grab onto?). Also, what happens to unattended objects? Do they automatically fail their check?

Other miscellaneous questions/comments:

Can you take 10 on Hard Turn, Hard Climb, Shake Loose or Complex Stunt checks?

I think that the Hard Climb stunt would fit most naturally in-between Hard Turn and Dive Attack.

How do you suggest dealing with dives and climbs in a zero-gravity environment?

Wyvern

 

[barsoomcore]

I think we should still make note of the fact that some vessels can only land on water and others can only land on land. This should be a part of the vessel stat block, as in Spelljammer. Attempting a landing on the wrong surface will result in an automatic crash. Also, crashing on water will be followed by sinking.

Agreed. This should be a part of a vessel stat block.

...it should be trivial to reassert control.... UNLESS a loss of control causes a vehicle to fail to travel its Minimum Speed.
You ought to mention somewhere that the Minimum Speed requirement doesn't apply in zero-gravity conditions.

Done. The Minimum Speed section now indicates that the requirement only exists in greater than zero gravity.

I still think that the take-off DC should be 10, to make it easier than landing.

This makes it automatic for any pilot given that they can take 10 on the check. But fair enough.

Loss of control on a natural 1.
There's one problem with this rule (which is the reason why I didn't suggest it myself); it means that all pilots, no matter what their skill level, suffer a 1 in 20 chance of losing control anytime they attempt a hard turn. Better to say that a natural 1 means that the pilot must make *another* Piloting check (or perhaps a Reflex save) at, say, DC 15 to avoid losing control.

I think we should just remove the possibility of losing control. If you're navigating down a narrow canyon and you fail your Hard Turn stunt check, you're pretty hosed whether or not you "lose control". It's not the losing control, it's the slamming into the canyon wall that's really going to ruin your day.

Even if the pilot takes two steer a vessel actions in one round, a vehicle cannot move any further than its Speed rating.
I think this sentence is unnecessary, since you already said the same thing quite clearly in the previous paragraph, and the one before *that*.

Okay, so I'm trying to be clear.

But agreed, and cleared up now.

I'd still like to see a stunt that allows the pilot to increase a vehicle's speed beyond its normal limit.

Maybe it should be a Feat rather than a Stunt? "Extreme Piloting" or "Redline Junkie" or something?

No single turn or slide may exceed the vessel's Max Turn rating, and all turns and slides combined may not exceed the vessel's Total Turn rating.
I still think it would be a good idea to add ", unless the pilot uses a Hard Turn stunt."

Yes. Done.

Vessels are considered to be at one of three altitudes: Low, Medium or High.
I'd still like to see a rule allowing vessels to fly at "Ground" level, to simulate barnstorming and other such maneuvers. It wouldn't require an actual Stunt, just a collision check each round to avoid crashing. This would be an exception to the rule that you don't need to make new collision checks when moving between squares occupied by the same object.

Agreed, and changed. Now vessels at Low altitude cannot make melee attacks against ground-based targets. To do so, a pilot must descend from Low altitude and make collision checks every round.

While we're on the subject, why shouldn't you make collision checks when moving between squares occupied by the same object? I'm changing that so that you do.

A vessel that continues plummeting.... will take triple normal crash damage upon impact...
What exactly does "triple normal" mean? Since crashing into the ground already inflicts double damage, does this mean that plummeting into the ground multiplies the damage by six? And if not, then what about plummeting into water? Does that also inflict triple normal damage?

Fixed. Colliding with the ground is simply that -- colliding with the ground. No special rule is needed.

The pilot must use at least one more steer a vessel action to control the vessel [after landing]... (some vessels may require more actions, depending on the difference between their minimum speed and their Speed ratings).
I think this would be clearer if you replaced "Speed ratings" with "current speed".

I've come up with a better description of the problem -- the issue is that the vessel must travel twice its Minimum Speed before the pilot can do anything but steer it -- once before and once after. This may take more than one round for some vessels. I have changed the text to better present this issue.

Incidentally, this raises the question of acceleration and deceleration. It's hardly realistic for a ship of any maneuverability class to be able to stop on a dime. So how do you propose we handle this?

I don't think we should attempt to model that. It gets very complicated and I don't see that it will provide much playability. We allow characters to start and stop on a dime (ever tried to stop suddenly when running full tilt?) so why not vessels?

On his next action, he travels 60 feet in a straight line and touches down right at the top end of the runway.
The way this is written, it seems as though the length of the runway doesn't matter when making an extended landing, since you don't touch down until the last round.

That's correct. It is the length of the approach, not the length of the runway, that matters. The trick is to reduce your speed as much as possible, prepare your approach, so that on touchdown all you have to do is brake. I don't see that hurtling down the runway after touchdown makes the touchdown itself easier.

You forgot to mention hovering vehicles (those with a minimum speed of zero). As I said before, I think they should get a flat +5 bonus to take-off and landing checks if they spend a full round on them.

I don't consider hovering vessels a special case. A hovering vessel can gain a landing bonus by maintaining its position above the landing pad (moving at its Minimum Speed of zero) for three rounds and gain a +6 bonus, which I think adequately represents the easier landing made by making small, careful adjustments and descending slowly.

Since if we make the take-off DC 10 any pilot can take off automatically, I don't see why a bonus would ever be required. Is a helicopter significantly more simple to take off in than a fixed-wing craft? I suspect not.

By the way, are flying creatures required to make take-off and landing checks too?

Yes. Of course they get a natural +8 bonus on all Piloting skill checks, so they can take off and land automatically.

Anyone or thing not secured on the vessel must make a Balance check to maintain their footing or a Climb check to retain their grip, depending on the situation.
This could still use some clarification regarding which check to make when (i.e. do you have to have climbing gear to make a Climb check, or do you simply need something you can grab onto?). Also, what happens to unattended objects? Do they automatically fail their check?

Thanks, covered now. Objects can be secured, prompting a Use Rope check.

Can you take 10 on Hard Turn, Hard Climb, Shake Loose or Complex Stunt checks?

No. Noted.

I think that the Hard Climb stunt would fit most naturally in-between Hard Turn and Dive Attack.

Done.

How do you suggest dealing with dives and climbs in a zero-gravity environment?

It might be best to include in an environment's description (or an environment TYPE'S description) which Stunts and conditions are possible or impossible. So we could have an environment type called "zero-gravity" which does not allow for the plummeting condition, does not include Altitude, nor the Hard Climb or Dive Attack Stunts. We might want to apply modifiers to some of these things depending on the environment (for example, reduced gravity reduces damage from collisions with the ground).

Will post revised chapters later.

 

[Wyvern]

Maybe it should be a Feat rather than a Stunt? "Extreme Piloting" or "Redline Junkie" or something?

Well, in my first draft of the character creation chapter I included a Speed Demon feat which I'd "borrowed" from the Pulp Heroes mini-game. However, since all these other fancy maneuvers are being treated as stunts, I thought it best if "pushing it to the limit" was treated as a stunt also, for consistency's sake. Why do you think it *should* be a feat?

While we're on the subject, why shouldn't you make collision checks when moving between squares occupied by the same object? I'm changing that so that you do.?

So how often does a pilot have to make collision checks? Every time they move from one square to another, or once per round?

Fixed. Colliding with the ground is simply that -- colliding with the ground. No special rule is needed.

Good idea.

I don't think we should attempt to model that. It gets very complicated and I don't see that it will provide much playability. We allow characters to start and stop on a dime (ever tried to stop suddenly when running full tilt?) so why not vessels??

Well, you have a point about running characters, but I'm not sure I agree that acceleration is more trouble than its worth for vessels. I'll have to think about that and see if I can come up with a simple set of rules for it. If nothing else, it could be included as an optional rule.

That's correct. It is the length of the approach, not the length of the runway, that matters. The trick is to reduce your speed as much as possible, prepare your approach, so that on touchdown all you have to do is brake. I don't see that hurtling down the runway after touchdown makes the touchdown itself easier.

I see your point.

I don't consider hovering vessels a special case. A hovering vessel can gain a landing bonus by maintaining its position above the landing pad (moving at its Minimum Speed of zero) for three rounds and gain a +6 bonus, which I think adequately represents the easier landing made by making small, careful adjustments and descending slowly.

Good point.

Thanks, covered now. Objects can be secured, prompting a Use Rope check.

Great idea.

It might be best to include in an environment's description (or an environment TYPE'S description) which Stunts and conditions are possible or impossible. So we could have an environment type called "zero-gravity" which does not allow for the plummeting condition, does not include Altitude, nor the Hard Climb or Dive Attack Stunts. We might want to apply modifiers to some of these things depending on the environment (for example, reduced gravity reduces damage from collisions with the ground).

I'll think about that and see what I can come up with next time I revise the environment chapter. As far as collision damage goes, it's momentum that matters, not gravitational conditions. (Of course, that means that a vessel's speed should affect collision damage, but that's probably more trouble than it's worth.)

Wyvern

 

[barsoomcore]

Hey Wyvern,

Answers to your two questions:

I think the ability to push a vehicle past its normal limits ought to be a feat for a couple of reasons:

1. A vehicle should only have one Top Speed, not a Top Speed and a Even More Top Speed Speed.

2. Not just anyone who's learned how to operate a vessel ought to be able to do this. It involves a special combination of nerve, intuition and skill. No amount of flying lessons will give you the ability to do this.

3. It's functionally similar to something like Cleave -- an ability with a tool that most people don't have, and that proficiency with the tool doesn't provide.

Secondly, I think a pilot should have to make a collision check for every square they pass through that is occupied by an object. Whether it's the same object or not from one square to the next ought not to make any difference. So flying at "Ground Level" requires a Piloting check at DC 18 every square. It's really, really dangerous for anyone but, say, a 4th-level pilot with above-average Dexterity (7 ranks plus at least one for Dex means automatic success unless someone's shooting at him). That seems reasonable to me.

About acceleration -- if you can come up with some pretty straightforward rules I'm up for it but I racked my small brain and got nothing so I said to heck with it, who needs it? But I give up easily. And I'm lazy.

And finally, about speed affecting collision damage, I agree but it starts to add whole new dimensions of complexity that I'm not sure provide much playability or fun.

 

[barsoomcore]

New version below. Significant updates (thanks Wyvern):

Added new Turn and Slide diagrams, and new Maneuverability Chart.
Minimum Speed only applies in gravity.
Take-Off DC 10.
No chance to lose control in a Hard Turn.
Added rules on ground level flight.
Collision checks required every square entered that is occupied by another object, even objects previously avoided.
Changed Landing description.

Chapter 2 Advanced Vessel Movement
Vessel movement can be much more complex than described in the previous chapter. Because these contraptions are traveling in three dimensions, they can maneuver up, down and even run the risk of crashing into each other. Pilots can perform death-defying stunts in order to increase their vessel's maneuverability, or just to recover control of a vessel plunging earthward in a deadly downward plummet.
Advanced movement includes such elements as Altitude (important for flying vessels), special maneuvers, special conditions vessels may find themselves in and Stunts, the trickiest maneuvers of all.

Creatures Vs. Vehicles
We promised to explain this, remember? Both creatures and vehicles can be vessels, in that they can transport characters into the air. There are some critical differences between the two types of vessels, however.
Creatures: The pilot of a creature is always the creature itself. The creature takes a steer a vessel action every round in which it moves any distance. For a creature, a steer a vessel action and a move action are identical while it is flying.
A flying creature automatically has +8 bonus to all Piloting skill checks. They can also take 10 on piloting checks even when stressed or in combat.
A creature's rider can attempt a Ride check in order to guide the creature's movement or encourage it to perform a stunt, but all required Piloting checks are always made by the creature. The rider can aid the creature's Piloting skill checks with successful Ride checks, just as outlined in core rulebook I, page 62, "Cooperation".
Vehicles: The pilot of a vehicle is whoever is currently at the controls. A vehicle may have more than one set of controls, but each round there can only be one pilot. Note that a vehicle, unlike a creature, cannot run or take a double move action. A pilot may take two steer a vessel actions in one round, but that only affects a vehicle's maneuverability, not the distance it can travel.

Moving In A Straight Line
Any vessel can move straight ahead any distance up to and including its Speed rating. A creature can move further than this by taking a run or a double move action. A vehicle, unlike a creature, can never move further in one round than its Speed rating. It cannot take a run action or a double move action. If the pilot of a vehicle takes two steer a vessel actions, the pilot must decide how far the vehicle will travel during each action. He may divide the vehicle's Speed any way he likes between the two actions, so long as the total distance travelled does not exceed the vehicle's Speed rating.
A pilot must take at least one steer a vessel action each round in order to maintain control of a vessel. If a round ever passes without a pilot taking at least one steer a vessel action to control the vessel, the vessel becomes out of control at the end of that round and a pilot must use a steer a vessel action to regain control of the vessel. See "Vessel Conditions", later in this chapter, for details on the effects of a vessel being out of control. Of course a creature is always in control unless the creature is incapacitated in some way.
Minimum Speed: Many vessels have a Minimum Speed rating. A vessel that fails to travel at least this distance in one round (not one action) will begin to plummet, plunging earthward uncontrollably. A pilot can use the Piloting skill to halt a plummeting vessel's death plunge. Note that the Minimum Speed requirement only applies in environments that have greater than zero gravity.
Glide Speed: Vessels that require a power source to keep aloft will always have a Glide Speed rating. Should the vessel suffer a loss of power, it immediately uses its Glide Speed instead of its normal Speed rating. This change takes effect on the vessel's pilot's next action. Note that the vessel's Minimum Speed rating remains in effect, which may cause the vessel to immediately begin to plummet. A vessel that does not have a Glide Speed is unaffected by any loss of power.
Gliding vessels in a gravity environment cannot gain altitude unless the pilot succeeds at a Hard Climb stunt (see Altitude and Stunts sections later in this chapter).

Turn, Turn, Turn
Unlike creatures on the ground, vessels cannot travel in any direction they like. Vessels always travel in the direction they are facing unless the pilot performs a turn or a slide. A turn allows a vessel to change its facing by 45 degrees. A slide allows a vessel to travel at a 45-degree angle to their facing. These two maneuvers are illustrated in the diagram below:

Maneuverability Ratings: Both turn and slide maneuvers are limited for each vessel by that vessel's Maneuverability Rating. These ratings are detailed in the chart below:

Every vessel belongs one of the five Maneuverability Ratings.
Max Turn indicates the maximum number of 45-degree turns a vessel can make in a single grid square, or the maximum number of squares the vessel can slide at one time. In order to turn or slide further, the vessel must move forward at least one square (normally 30 feet for vessel-based maneuvering).
Total Turn indicates the maximum 45-degree turns a vessel can turn, or the maximum number of squares the vessel can slide in a single Steer a Vessel action. Each turn or slide a vessel makes per action is totalled up. No single turn or slide may exceed the vessel's Max Turn rating, and all turns and slides combined may not exceed the vessel's Total Turn rating, unless the pilot uses the Hard Turn stunt (see Stunts, below).
Turn Modifier is a Skill check modifier that applies to Piloting skill checks made for certain Stunts. See the description of each Stunt to determine if the Turn Modifier applies.
Vehicle Modifiers: Vehicles may also have individual modifiers based on their construction. Each vehicle has a Handling Modifier which is applied to any Piloting skill checks made in that vessel. The Handling Modifier represents advanced components or special controls, magical enhancements and so on.
Glide Maneuverability: Vessels that require a power source to keep aloft will always have a Glide Maneuverability rating. Should the vessel suffer a loss of power, it immediately uses its Glide Maneuverability instead of its normal Maneuverability rating. This change takes effect on the vessel's pilot's next action.

Altitude
Vessels are considered to be at one of three altitudes: Low, Medium or High. The actual heights involved can vary by vessel type and size and are left deliberately undefined. Vessels at different altitudes cannot collide with each other, make melee attacks against each other or make ramming attacks against each other. Vessels at the same altitude who enter a square occupied by another vessel must check to avoid colliding (see Collisions, below) and may make melee or ramming attacks against each other. Vessels at any altitude cannot make melee attacks against ground-based targets, nor are they within the threat range of normal ground-based opponents.
Changing Altitude: A pilot can change a vessel's altitude one category upwards, or up to two categories downward, for each steer a vessel action she takes. The new altitude takes effect at the end of the action. A pilot may change a vessel's altitude two categories upwards if she succeeds at the Hard Climb stunt (see below). A pilot whose vessel is gliding must succeed at the Hard Climb stunt in order to change their vessel's altitude one category upwards.
Note that in a gravity environment, a vessel gains a +1 circumstance bonus to any attack rolls made against an opponent at a lower altitude.
Ground Level: A vessel normally flies at an altitude high enough that it suffers no risk of colliding with the ground. At times, however, a pilot may wish to approach the ground dangerously closely. To do so, the pilot must start their action at Low altitude and descend. They must make a collision check against the ground (see Collisions and Crashing, below) that round and every round thereafter until they climb back up to Low altitude. While flying at ground level, the vessel may make melee attacks against ground-based opponents and is subject to melee attacks from those same opponents. It may draw attacks of opportunity from ground-based opponents.

Collisions and Crashing
Collision Check: Anytime a vessel enters a grid square occupied by another object, it must make a collision check to avoid hitting the object. A collision check is a Piloting skill check made against DC 10, minus the other object's size modifier. That is, avoiding a Fine vessel has a DC of 2 (10 - 8), while avoiding a Colossal vessel has a DC of 18 (10 - (-8)). The surface of a planet or world is always a Colossal object. Unless in combat or under other extraordinary conditions the pilot can take 10 on this check.
If the pilot fails this check his vessel is on a collision course with that object in that square. If the target object is a vessel, the pilot of that vessel may make an immediate collision check of his own as a free action. Success on this second collision check means that no collision takes place. Uncontrolled objects cannot avoid a collision and automatically fail this check. Only if both collision checks fail does a collision take place.
When there is more than one object in a square, the pilot must make a collision check against each object, starting with the largest and proceeding down through every object in the square in descending order of size. For objects of the same size determine randomly which one to check against first. If a pilot collides with one object he does not make any more collision checks and cannot collide with any other object in that square.
Collision Damage: Damage for a collision is calculated for both vessels using the size category of the opposing vessel. Refer to the Vessel Size chart in Chapter One to determine Collision Damage. The struck vessel (the one which occupied the square originally) may make a Reflex saving throw against DC 20 to reduce the collision damage by half. The colliding vessel gets no saving throw.
If a collision occurs head-on between two moving vessels (that is, the struck vessel moved at least one square last round, and the front of both vessels are within 45 degrees of each other) all damage is doubled. If the collision occurs with the ground or a ground-based object, the vessel takes damage as though striking a Colossal object head-on. Colliding with a body of water inflicts damage as though striking a Colossal object.
If the colliding vessel remains able to continue flying after taking collision damage, it may continue on past the struck vessel, maneuvering normally.
Regardless of whether or not the vessel collided with the object, if it passes through more squares occupied by that object, the pilot must make another collision check for every square passed through.

Vessel Conditions
Under normal conditions a vessel behaves as expected and responds to the pilot's controls. There are three abnormal conditions a vessel may be in, however, none of which are at all pleasant: Out of Control, Gliding and Plummeting.
Out of Control: A vessel not controlled by a pilot is considered out of control. A vessel is not controlled if during the pilot's last round she failed to use at least one steer a vessel action to control the vessel. A vessel can also become uncontrolled if the pilot fails a piloting skill check for a stunt (see stunt descriptions for exact details). Should the pilot lose control of their vessel, the vessel automatically continues to travel in the direction it is current facing and at the same speed as it did the previous round. Because there is no one at the controls, the vessel is considered flat-footed, losing all Dex bonuses to AC. It also automatically fails any Reflex saves or piloting skill checks.
Any character who can reach the controls of an out of control vessel can use a steer a vessel action to regain control of the vessel automatically. No Piloting skill check is required.
Gliding: A vessel that has a Glide Speed or a Glide Maneuverability rating may be forced to glide. These vessels depend on some sort of power to keep them aloft, and should this power source ever be interrupted or exhausted, the vessel immediately begins to glide. Once a vessel begins gliding, its Glide Speed and/or its Glide Maneuverability replace its normal Speed or Maneuverability ratings.
A vessel that does not have a Glide Speed or a Glide Maneuverability always uses its normal Speed or Maneuverability rating.
Plummeting: When a vessel fails to travel its Minimum Speed in a single round, and has no other method or effect keeping it aloft, it begins to plummet. Such a vessel is plunging earthward at great speed. It will fall a single altitude category (from High to Medium, from Medium to Low or from Low to the ground) at the end of each round that it continues to plummet. A plummeting vessel is considered out of control until the plummet is stopped. It is flat-footed and loses all Dex bonuses to AC. It also automatically fails any Reflex Saves or piloting skill checks.
Anyone who can reach the controls of a plummeting vessel can attempt to stop the plummet with a Piloting skill check of DC 20. If they are successful, the vessel stops plummeting. The pilot resumes control of the vessel at whatever altitude the vessel had fallen to last round.
A vessel that continues plummeting the round after it has fallen to Low altitude will strike the ground at the end of that round. It will take normal collision damage for striking the ground (head-on damage against a Colossal object) upon impact, and all aboard will take normal falling damage for whatever height the vessel fell from.

Stunts
For each Steer a Vessel action a pilot takes, she is not only able to turn the vehicle up to its Total Turn value, she can also make a single special maneuver, called a Stunt. This means that in one round, a pilot can attempt a maximum of two Stunts, if she takes two Steer a Vessel actions. Most Stunts are always dangerous, and so pilots cannot take 10 on these Piloting skill checks unless specifically noted in the Stunt description.
Of course it is impossible to predict all of the crazy things characters are likely to do with their flying machines, but the Stunts described should cover most situations. The DM is encouraged to use his best judgment in applying these Stunts to unique scenarios.
Landing: Landing is the first stunt all new pilots are taught. In order to land, a vessel must start the pilot's action at Low altitude. It travels at least its Minimum Speed in a straight line and touches down at the end of the action. The pilot makes a Piloting skill check at DC 15 in order to successfully touch down. Under normal conditions the pilot may take 10 on this check. If this check is failed the vessel crashes.
After touchdown the vessel must move at least its Minimum Speed along the ground in a straight line. This means the vessel must move twice its Minimum Speed during landing; once before and once after touchdown. The vessel must remain under the control of its pilot until both movements are complete. That is, the pilot may not take any actions other than the steer a vessel action until the vessel has travelled at least its Minimum Speed after touchdown. Any attempt to turn or stop the vessel before it has travelled at least its Minimum Speed requires a Piloting skill check against DC 25 to avoid crashing. If a pilot does not spend a steer a vessel action while the vessel is traveling its Minimum Speed, the vessel crashes immediately. A vessel that crashes after touchdown takes Collision Damage as though striking the ground (see Collisions and Crashing, above).
Extended Landing: Spending more time can make landing much easier on a pilot. A pilot can chose to spend up to three rounds before touchdown on the landing, gaining a +2 circumstance bonus to the landing check for each round spent. Each round must be spent on the landing, using two steer a vessel actions. Each steer vessel action must be spent traveling in a straight line at Low altitude no more than the vessel's Minimum Speed. The pilot does not make a Piloting skill check until touchdown, at which point the accumulated bonus applies.
Example 1: Arthak is trying to bring his cargo skimmer (Speed 240 ft., Minimum Speed 60 ft.) in for a landing. He lines up with the runway and drops to Low altitude. On his next action, he travels 60 feet in a straight line and touches down right at the top end of the runway. He rolls his Piloting skill check and gets a 19, enough for a successful touchdown. On his next action he continues controlling the vessel, moving it forward down the runway another 60 feet. A perfect landing.
Example 2: Silat is trying to coax a clumsy hulk (Speed 120 ft., Minimum Speed 80 ft.) into a landing. Like Arthak, she lines up with the runway and drops to Low altitude. Unfortunately, she has misjudged her distance and is already partway down the runway. On her next action she travels 80 feet in a straight line and touches down with only 60 feet of runway left. She makes her Piloting Skill check with a 21 and touches down safely, but now she has to travel her Minimum Speed in a straight line. She's already traveled 80 feet this round and so can only travel 40 feet on her next action, which she does. She starts her next round needing to travel another 40 feet in a straight line, but with only 20 feet of runway left. She's in trouble. Silat makes a desperate haul on the brakes, and rolls a Piloting skill check of 26, just enough to keep her vessel under control and stop it before the end of the runway.
This stunt does not make use of the Turn Modifier.
Taking Off: To take off, a pilot must use a steer a vessel action to move a vessel at least its Minimum Speed in a straight line along the ground. After the vessel has moved its Minimum Speed the pilot may make a Piloting skill check against a DC of 10 in order to successfully take off. A pilot can take 10 on this check. A failed Take-Off check results in the vessel remaining on the ground despite having moved its Minimum Speed down the runway. The pilot can attempt to Take Off again once the vessel has again moved at least its Minimum Speed.
This stunt does not make use of the Turn Modifier.
Hard Turn: A pilot can attempt to make a turn (or a slide; both can be employed in this stunt) that is not considered part of the vessel's normal Max Turn or Total Turn. A vessel can turn any amount using the Hard Turn stunt, unlimited by its Maneuverability Rating. The Piloting skill check DC for a Hard Turn is determined by the angle of the turn. For every 45 degrees of the attempted turn, the DC increases by 5. A 45 degree Hard Turn has a DC of 5, while a 180 degree Hard Turn has a DC of 20.
If the pilot fails his skill check, the vessel does not turn as much as intended and instead turns however much the skill check allows. Only on a natural roll of 1 does the pilot lose control of the vessel.
Example: Arthak is piloting a Clumsy Vessel. A Clumsy Vessel has a Max Turn of 0, so any turn is automatically a Hard Turn. Turning 45 degrees in one action has a DC of 5. Arthak rolls a 14 and makes the Hard Turn easily.
Example 2: Silat is piloting a Good Vessel, but she needs to double back in one square, making a 180 degree single turn. A Good Vessel has a Max Turn rating of 90 degrees, so Silat needs to make a Hard Turn of 90 degrees after completing the first 90 degrees in a normal turn. The DC for a 90 degree turn is 10, so Silat must make that or better on a Piloting Skill check in order to succeed.
This stunt makes use of the Turn Modifier.
Hard Climb: To climb faster than normal a pilot must use this stunt. Hard Climb allows a vessel to climb two altitude categories in a single action, instead of the usual one. A vessel that is currently gliding can climb a single altitude category only if the pilot succeeds at a Hard Climb stunt.
The Piloting skill check DC for a Hard Climb is 20. If the pilot fails the skill check, the vessel stalls and begins to plummet (see "plummeting", in Vessel Conditions).
This stunt does not make use of the Turn Modifier.
Dive Attack: A pilot can attempt to dive downward at a target in order to increase the chance of hitting it. This is a dangerous maneuver as it requires a collision check to avoid actually ramming the target.
The pilot's vessel must begin the action one altitude category higher than the target. The pilot must end his action in a square occupied by the target, dropping one altitude category in order to enter the square at the appropriate height. A collision check must be made in order to avoid striking the target, unless a ramming attack is being attempted (see Combat, next section). The pilot may not take 10 on this collision check.
A dive attack can be attempted against a ground target if the vessel starts the action at Low altitude. The pilot still must make a collision check in order to avoid striking the ground. Should the vessel strike the ground it will take triple Collision Damage and all passengers take falling damage as appropriate for the height fallen. On a successful collision check the vessel is finishes the maneuver at Low altitude.
All attacks made by the pilot or any passengers on board his vessel who have readied an action for Dive Attack have a +2 circumstance bonus. Only passengers who have readied an action for this moment can take advantage of this bonus. Passengers whose initiative count is lower than the pilot's do not get the bonus applied to their attack rolls, nor do passengers who have already taken their action this round. If the pilot uses his first action for the Dive Attack stunt, he can use his second action that round in order to attack the target, gaining the +2 circumstance bonus to any attack rolls for that round.
If the pilot fails the collision check, the maneuver does not provide any attack bonuses, even if a collision does not actually occur.
This stunt makes use of the Turn Modifier.
Shake Loose: A pilot can attempt to create a shaky ride in order to knock over people on or in the vessel. Anyone or thing not secured on the vessel must make a Balance check to maintain their footing or a Climb check to retain their grip, depending on the situation. Balance checks are appropriate when the subject is forced to maintain footing on a flat surface, while Climb checks are appropriate when the subject has something to cling to. Inanimate Objects automatically get a result of 1, although a character may attempt to secure an object, in which case the characer's Use Rope skill check is used. This an opposed skill check between the pilot and everyone on board not strapped down. The pilot makes a Piloting skill check, and everyone affected must beat that result or fall off the vessel.
Example: a pilot wants to shake a gremlin off his wing. He attempts a Shake Loose Stunt and rolls a total of 36 after modifiers. The Gremlin must now make a Balance check against DC 36 or be knocked from the wing. If instead of a gremlin on the wing, it had been a NPC secured with a rope and grappling hook, the check would have been a Climb check, with bonuses for the hook and rope. There is no special penalty for rolling low on this stunt.
This stunt makes use of the Turn Modifier.
Complex Stunt: An impressive maneuver of Piloting skill, such as a loop, barrel roll, or spin is worked into the vessel's movement. Besides looking impressive, it also has the benefit of making a vessel difficult to target. The vessel gains a Dodge bonus to AC based on the complexity of the stunt. The DC of the Piloting skill check is 5 + 5 for each Dodge bonus, so a +1 is DC 10, and +3 is DC 20. The maximum bonus possible is +5 DC 30. This bonus lasts until the pilot's next turn. Making two Complex Stunts in the same round does not stack. Only the highest bonus applies.
Missing a Complex Stunt check by more than 5 will result in the vessel becoming out of control.
This stunt makes use of the Turn Modifier.

 

[BlackJaw]

VERY nice charts!

 

[Wyvern]

Hey Wyvern,

Answers to your two questions:

I think the ability to push a vehicle past its normal limits ought to be a feat for a couple of reasons:

1. A vehicle should only have one Top Speed, not a Top Speed and a Even More Top Speed Speed.

2. Not just anyone who's learned how to operate a vessel ought to be able to do this. It involves a special combination of nerve, intuition and skill. No amount of flying lessons will give you the ability to do this.

3. It's functionally similar to something like Cleave -- an ability with a tool that most people don't have, and that proficiency with the tool doesn't provide.

Okay, I agree with your reasoning. However, on reflection, I realized that the math involved is too finicky. As written, the Speed Demon feat allows you to increase a vehicle's maximum speed by 10%, but when you're dealing in increments of 30 ft, that just doesn't work. So unless someone can suggest an alternative, I'm inclined to just forget about the whole idea after all.

Secondly, I think a pilot should have to make a collision check for every square they pass through that is occupied by an object. Whether it's the same object or not from one square to the next ought not to make any difference. So flying at "Ground Level" requires a Piloting check at DC 18 every square. It's really, really dangerous for anyone but, say, a 4th-level pilot with above-average Dexterity (7 ranks plus at least one for Dex means automatic success unless someone's shooting at him). That seems reasonable to me.

Fair enough. On reading your new section on flying at ground level, I wondered if perhaps we should make an exception for flying creatures; after all, when was the last time you saw a bird collide with the ground? Then I realized that, by a happy coincidence, their +8 bonus enables them to just beat the DC by taking 10.

About acceleration -- if you can come up with some pretty straightforward rules I'm up for it but I racked my small brain and got nothing so I said to heck with it, who needs it? But I give up easily. And I'm lazy.

Well, I'll take a stab at it and see what I can come up with, after I've finished updating the character creation chapter (which should hopefully - fingers crossed - be within the week).

And finally, about speed affecting collision damage, I agree but it starts to add whole new dimensions of complexity that I'm not sure provide much playability or fun.

Agreed.

One thing I brought up once or twice before that still hasn't found its way into a final write-up yet is the issue of co-pilots. Specifically, we should mention that a co-pilot can use a steer a vessel action to make a cooperative skill check. The question is, should that be included in this chapter, in the description of the Pilot skill (which is my responsibility), or in the components chapter (since the vessel needs a secondary set of controls to allow co-piloting). What do you guys think?

That question aside, your latest revision of the chapter looks terrific. Except for proof-reading (which I'll deal with in due time), I think we can pretty much call this chapter finished. Good job!

 

[barsoomcore]

I realized that the math involved is too finicky. (snip) So unless someone can suggest an alternative, I'm inclined to just forget about the whole idea after all.

Let's sit on it. It's a good idea, we just need a mechanic to implement it. Something will come.

I realized that, by a happy coincidence, their +8 bonus enables them to just beat the DC by taking 10.

Coincidence? Pshaw. Yet another example of our spectacular design skills, coupled with our encyclopedic command of the subtleties of d20 mathematics.

One thing I brought up once or twice before that still hasn't found its way into a final write-up yet is the issue of co-pilots.

Do we need to mention a specific case of the standard Aid Another action? Perhaps. It doesn't belong in the Piloting skill description because other skill descriptions don't include such things. I don't think it belongs in Maneuvering or Combat because it's actually not either of those things -- it can affect both but isn't something you need to know to manage either.

I reckon it should go in the descriptions of control components. Control components ought to mention that while a vessel is always commanded by a single pilot at a single control set, other control sets can be installed so that co-pilots can make Aid Another actions.

That makes the most sense to me. Otherwise, it's just sort of the "by the way" sort of rule that doesn't really belong anywhere.

That question aside, your latest revision of the chapter looks terrific. Except for proof-reading (which I'll deal with in due time), I think we can pretty much call this chapter finished. Good job!

Excellent. And yes, we should all do a careful proof-read once we're done with each chapter.

 

[Wyvern]

Coincidence? Pshaw. Yet another example of our spectacular design skills, coupled with our encyclopedic command of the subtleties of d20 mathematics.

LOL!

Do we need to mention a specific case of the standard Aid Another action? ... I reckon it should go in the descriptions of control components. Control components ought to mention that while a vessel is always commanded by a single pilot at a single control set, other control sets can be installed so that co-pilots can make Aid Another actions.

Agreed. BlackJaw, can you take care of that?

Wyvern