Character Death
Greenfield
Adventurer
I'm not the one complaining, at least not about character death and rebirth.
No, this time I'm mixing a little laughter with a campaign question.
For our resident power gamer, I'd quote Shakespeare's Hamlet and mention being "hoist with his own petard", except that we don't use gunpowder in our games.
As for his complaints? The various DMs in the game would need to take a vote and agree with him. The first vote is a foregone conclusion, and further complaints won't bring on a second vote.
Besides, the game moves on. He either comes up with a new character, equipped and ready to play, or he doesn't. If he wants to send his new character out in his boxer shorts while waiting for mounds of equipment to magically fall from the sky, that's his business. He'll be waiting a long while.
No, this time I'm mixing a little laughter with a campaign question.
For our resident power gamer, I'd quote Shakespeare's Hamlet and mention being "hoist with his own petard", except that we don't use gunpowder in our games.
As for his complaints? The various DMs in the game would need to take a vote and agree with him. The first vote is a foregone conclusion, and further complaints won't bring on a second vote.
Besides, the game moves on. He either comes up with a new character, equipped and ready to play, or he doesn't. If he wants to send his new character out in his boxer shorts while waiting for mounds of equipment to magically fall from the sky, that's his business. He'll be waiting a long while.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
I loathe advanced starts in gaming. That being said, I generally go roughly by the bottom of the bracket. I try not make a big deal of it, though - some of my players don't handle character death well.
I did let the one player transfer a magic item to his new character. In hindsight, I feel like this was a mistake. But he was salty enough over the character death to begin with, so I caved.
I did let the one player transfer a magic item to his new character. In hindsight, I feel like this was a mistake. But he was salty enough over the character death to begin with, so I caved.
Grogg of the North
Adventurer
If your character dies, you come back a level down.
If you retire your character (Ex: I can't be a paladin in this group, it's just not working) then you can come back in at your old XP total.
In both cases, new characters gain WBL.
Your old PC isn't going to miss his gear. The rest of the party will divy up what they want and hock the rest.
If you retire your character (Ex: I can't be a paladin in this group, it's just not working) then you can come back in at your old XP total.
In both cases, new characters gain WBL.
Your old PC isn't going to miss his gear. The rest of the party will divy up what they want and hock the rest.
was
Adventurer
...We pretty much do the same thing. Players who lose their characters start with a new one a level behind the average party level. They also get new gear at the norm for their new level, after being approved by the DM.
...If your group has a long standing houserule, that the majority stands behind, then stick with it. Caving into a whiny, selfish player will only encourage that person to do it more in the future whenever they don't get their way.
...If your group has a long standing houserule, that the majority stands behind, then stick with it. Caving into a whiny, selfish player will only encourage that person to do it more in the future whenever they don't get their way.
Grogg of the North
Adventurer
[MENTION=6669384]Greenfield[/MENTION]
Two questions. First, while I would normally not advocate giving into whiny player's demands, could you have altered the reincarnate table to include that player's race? I think that an aquatic race in the middle of the desert sorta excludes them from the list of options, out of rolling a 100.
Second, why are you still tolerating this player? While I enjoy, and would miss, the stories it seems like every week this player has another issue.
Two questions. First, while I would normally not advocate giving into whiny player's demands, could you have altered the reincarnate table to include that player's race? I think that an aquatic race in the middle of the desert sorta excludes them from the list of options, out of rolling a 100.
Second, why are you still tolerating this player? While I enjoy, and would miss, the stories it seems like every week this player has another issue.
I'm not sure why we feel the player needs to be "penalized" more for having a character die. "I just can't make a Paladin work in this game" seems a lot less in-game dramatic and fun than "and the bold Paladin remained behind to guard the bridge, giving his own life that his comrades at arms might escape to fight another day". "This character isn't powerful enough so I'm going to retire him and bring in something more optimized" also doesn't strike me as great for the game.
However, Raise Dead would cost the character a level, so it seems fair the new character would be down a level. In Pathfinder, the negative levels bestowed by Raise Dead can be restored, so I would have a different view there (maybe he should be WBL-light by the cost of the Restoration spells), and pe-3e, I recall being Raised reduced CON, not levels, so that's a different ballpark as well.
This I concur with 100%. The group has established the practice that sets the standard for new characters. If the group wants to discuss a change to that approach, then my bias would be that, first, the new character is brought in under the present rule, and then we discuss whether the standard should be changed going forward.
was
Adventurer
...I think it's less of trying to penalize players and more of a throwback to the old idea that death should have some sort of consequence. Having also DM'd and played with some folks who like to show up with a new pc at every session anyways, it helps cut down on the madness.
Grogg of the North
Adventurer
The rules a group use should be bendable. I think in all scenarios the Player and DM need to talk about what's going to happen.
Retiring a character because of alignment debates or a personality conflict (a paladin not wanting to murder orc babies for example) is a sign of good faith from a player and shows they care about the game and the group. A fighter bravely making a last stand so his friends and loved ones can escape is a beautiful story moment. I probably wouldn't penalize that player. Heck, I might even give them a small bonus with the new character. But getting rid of your character because you can't punch out Orcus yet? No, I'd squash that faster than someone bringing up politics at the table.
There's a divide between some games where the replacement character comes in matching the current party if the old character retired, but comes in a level lower if he replaces a dead character. I'm more inclined to a model that sets the bar the same for any replacement character, whether the prior character died, retired or whatever than one that favours just replacing a character "because I feel like a new character" over "because the old character died".
I can recall a 1/2e game where replacing a dead character was penalized less than just switching characters for some other reason. This sometimes lead to a character who was played out being "marked for death" between player and DM because the DM was OK with the reasons for replacing the character (ie not "I wish I could do this so I want a new character" but "the character's story is told and he is played out").
Given the 3e xp model, it's also interesting to note that the character who starts out a level below the party may leapfrog the higher xp characters due to the xp system. Pathfinder replaced "losing a level" with "a negative level" (two from Raise Dead). You don't earn those back - you need them restored. So the disadvantage may be reduced (the character will need to spend some gold) but it also won't later reverse into an advantage.
PF also ditched the xp cost for many spells, and for item crafting, two other means of being just a bit behind the rest of the group (and then leapfrogging ahead when xp is next awarded).
Last edited:
Similar Threads
