Character Suicide

Frywick

First Post
My group are in the process of switching to 5e and one of my players has asked me to ret con the last couple of games so he can make a new character with the homebrew "Blood Hunter" class. I have no issue with the class but i dont want to ret con the last couple of sessions. I tell him no and he asks if he can just kill himself to make a new character, i told him no although he really can and he might. If he does what do i do? The class isnt in the world and doesnt exist. Do i let him kill himself or say it cant happen.
 
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Gilladian

Adventurer
Why would he need to "retcon" the last few sessions? It doesn't seem necessary to me, unless your game is in a place where changing a character would be very disruptive to the plot; retconning would seem to be even worse, to me.

Anyway, if you do not want the homebrew class in your campaign, just tell him NO. He can commit "suicide" all he wants, but you don't have to allow a new class into your campaign world. Just make it clear before he does kill his old character waht your decision is.

Personally, while switching to a new rules system, unless you've all played it before in a different game, I would NOT allow a new homebrew class for the first go-around. Stick with the characters in the PH until you have some familiarity and know the game's balance.

If he insists that he needs a new character, let him choose something from the PH or one of the other adventure books (I think each of them has introduced SOME new race or class, right?). Stick to your guns as DM. It is your world, you're the one runnign the game and you are the one responsible for being sure the game is fair and balanced for everyone.
 

qo

Villager
Player Suicide

Can their original character not just disappear in the middle of the night and then the rest of the party meet the new character a little down the road?

You could then bring the original character back as an NPC at a much later date to find out what happened to him. Perhaps he ends up being a Big Bad...

If he really wants to kill himself though then I would probably let him. I'd make him roll for it though.
 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
My group are in the process of switching to 5e and one of my players has asked me to ret con the last couple of games so he can make a new character with the homebrew "Blood Hunter" class. I have nothing wrong with the class but i dont want to ret con the last couple of sessions. I tell him no and he asks if he can just kill himself to make a new character, i told him no although he really can and he might. If he does what do i do? The class isnt in the world and doesnt exist. Do i let him kill himself or say it cant happen.

What is your goal?

If a player is not enjoying the character they're playing, you have two choices. You can use your power to ensure your friend is not having fun, or you can be nice to your friend and help him have fun. If the guy doesn't want to play that character any more, are you really invested in *forcing* him to?
 
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GreenTengu

Adventurer
Okay.
First, player suicide would be the player killing themselves. Not the player having the character kill themselves. You are talking about CHARACTER suicide, not PLAYER suicide. That is a very, very important distinction to make.

Next, I think you might want to review something. If a player has no desire to continue to play the same character, why is it necessary for a character to die in order for the player to switch roles? Someone ending their own life is a fairly heavy topic you are treating with a weird sort of levity here. The motivating factor for the character to stop adventuring is coming from the player's desire to play something else-- i.e. the motivating factor is something outside their own reality. Having the character commit suicide is unnecessary and pointless.

So this tells me not enough time was spent in creating the character. To you and the player it is just a piece of paper with a bunch of numbers written on it via the guide the rulebook indicated. It isn't a character or else a stronger conceptualization of this individuals motivations and drives would be clear and the idea of the character killing themselves would be utterly unthinkable.

That being said, if the player has no desire to play a character, there is no need to force them. The character can just become an NPC and step out of the adventuring party with some fairly conceivable excuse (he made enough money during the adventures to be able to afford to live a less dangerous life or a family member wrote to him and asked him to come back because a parent died or someone was gravely ill, etc.). There is no need for a character to die nor any retconning to be done for a player to switch roles over to another they are more comfortable with in 98% of cases. Unless all the characters are truly trapped in some limbo that precludes the possibility of encountering other people or someone leaving the presence of the others of their own volition, then allowing a player to swap character roles is not impossible.

Now... you aren't really presenting a good argument against this "Blood Hunter" class. Saying that something "isn&t in the world and doesn't exist" is an empty and asinine excuse that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Because, if you are going to be completely honest the very moment you come across a monster that you hadn't thought up before but like, you will retcon it into existing in the world as though it always had in numbers large enough to propagate itself... if you come across a magic item you want to use but hadn't previously introduced into the world, you will feel free to add it to the world and quite possibly in a way that indicates it has existed in the world for centuries. Basically you just arbitrarily add things to the world whenever it strikes you fancy, and so you really aren't being honest in saying you can't introduce something into the world as always having been there because it doesn't exist in the world-- because this is something you surely do and will continue to do going forward. When you use that excuse, what you are actually saying is "I am saying no arbitrarily simply because I said so, go screw yourself." In which case they are completely correct in being upset by this behavior on your part.

Which isn't to say you are incorrect in disallowing the class to be played. But in that case you right when you said "I have nothing wrong with the class"-- well, you were wrong regardless because that is absolutely atrocious use of the English language and doesn't actually have a meaning, but I gather you meant "I have nothing against the class" which surely cannot possibly be the case if you are arbitrarily disallowing it. There is clearly something about the class that makes you not want it to be allowed. And there are plenty of valid reasons why-- from the mechanics requiring too much work to the theme of the class not matching the tone of the game you want to run to not feeling prepared or experienced enough to really judge the mechanics.... to simply being suspicious of anything that is homebrewed because even if everything looks on the up-and-up on first glance, it is quite possible you are missing the loophole that allows it to be vastly overpowered and ruin everyone else's fun.

But you need to be honest with both yourself and your player first. If you deal honestly with people, you'll find many of these problems are not so difficult to resolve.
 

Frywick

First Post
Ok so besides the nitpicking of my grammer and word choice I can see the point you're making. But some things I feel I need to make clear

1. His choice for his character to commit suicide not mine
2. The class, as far as i can see, is balanced but I do not want it in my world which as you stated is a valid point
3. He does not not enjoy playing his current class but would rather switch to "Blood Hunter"
4. Before you say "There are other classes that he has the option to play that's not homebrew", he has expressed that he doesnt want to play other classes besides his current and Blood Hunter
5. This is his first time playing any edition D&D and at the start made it clear I wanted them to pick from base races and classes

Also I've noticed that in your wall of text you have failed to give a concise and direct answer the question thats presented to you and instead opted to offer life advice and criticism where it isn't due.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Ok so besides the nitpicking of my grammer and word choice I can see the point you're making. But some things I feel I need to make clear

1. His choice for his character to commit suicide not mine
2. The class, as far as i can see, is balanced but I do not want it in my world which as you stated is a valid point
3. He does not not enjoy playing his current class but would rather switch to "Blood Hunter"
4. Before you say "There are other classes that he has the option to play that's not homebrew", he has expressed that he doesnt want to play other classes besides his current and Blood Hunter
5. This is his first time playing any edition D&D and at the start made it clear I wanted them to pick from base races and classes

Also I've noticed that in your wall of text you have failed to give a concise and direct answer the question thats presented to you and instead opted to offer life advice and criticism where it isn't due.

I'm not sure which of the above people who have made the effort to offer advice you're relying to, but you appear to be making an argument rather than seeking advice. And being fairly obnoxious when people didn't give you the answer you clearly wanted them to.

In which case, sure. Do what you already want to do. :)
 


A

amerigoV

Guest
Tell them they can commit PC suicide, but only if they jump off a cliff. Then make them adventure to find a cliff that is high enough to inflict enough falling damage to kill 'em.

Hilarity ensues after about 6 cliffs - <rolls> "sorry, 2hp short. Try again."
 

Koloth

First Post
No need to ret con anything. You stated you are switching systems. Make the offer to all players that they can reinvent their characters to new classes if they want. They are already having to do some reinventing due to the system switch. Just wave your magic DM arms and make it so.

Might want to have a one on one with the player in question and see if there is an alternative acceptable to both of you.

It is your call as DM as to what classes, feats, and other stuff you allow in your game. If this player doesn't want to play THIS game without being a Blood Hunter and you don't want to allow it, then part amicably and find a replacement player for this game. This might leave the option open in the future for the player to return if/when you run a different game.
 

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