thatdarncat
Overlord of Chat
Hey Vemp, long time no see 
Can you give me some examples of your problems with IRC?
Can you give me some examples of your problems with IRC?
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Chat.... Chat?
- Thread starter Michael Morris
- Start date
Vempyre
Explorer
The interface, mostly.
/slash commands are so yesterday
Lack of a visual environment in which you can visualize the ones you chat with. (I guess I am getting used to chat in a 3d environment or a graphical one). But this is more of a flavor thing and has nothing to do with usability. Ever though I grow older and older, I am the type of person that keep switching to the new stuff as it comes out, mostly. That's why I guess to me IRC feels outdated and yesterday
... It's just that comparing to today's possibilities in technology ... (there is such wonderful videoconferencing software existing today all over)
To resume, I wish Cyberspace was already existing, hehe.
But my personal wishes aside, the interface is very important to help make chat easy to use even for "non-geeks". I feel regular IRC with it's usual interfaces doesn't connect with the world at large, but only to an handful of "know-how" or "nostalgics".
A few years ago still, the internet was mostly populated with geeks. These days everybody is using it. My grand-mother in her mid eighty's is using internet to play cards with her daughters 500 miles away and uses MSN and checks a few web pages. She also uses gaming web sites (card games, mostly) with logins and integrated chat (and even voice chat) while playing. I don't subscribe to cable TV anymore but get my news, videos or written, from the net. I watch my favorite TV shows (and anime!) from the net. I buy e-books from the net and put them on my pocket-pc (which happens to also be my phone end portable video and mp3 player) to read in my bed at night.
It is an example to reflect that all kind of ppl use the internet nowadays, for everything. The internet and this site should change and adapt to offer better interfaces that doesn't require geek knowledge or obscures /slash commands to use.
The same is/has happened to DnD. More and more "less geeky than before" ppl are playing these days with the regained popularity from 3e and I feel 4e will continue that trend even more. Many of those ppl are potential ENWorld newcomers.
Therefore for the future (either immediate or in a few years) I think ENWorld should ensure to have the best Interface possible in all of it's components for the most pleasing and ease of use experience while consulting and using the site. Us geeks don't mind a few kinks, we sometimes even "like" it, hehe. But the rest of the crowd doesn't.
All of this is theoretical of course and I have no direct suggestion for technologies or platforms to use. But I think such values should be considered when using platforms and interfaces for all components of this site (or any site these days).
Why not replace chat with videoconferencing? *wink* Or integrated voice chat? (Ok I am going way too far, hehe)
Last edit : a better resume of my thoughts would be "there's a reason windows replaced DOS".
/slash commands are so yesterday
Lack of a visual environment in which you can visualize the ones you chat with. (I guess I am getting used to chat in a 3d environment or a graphical one). But this is more of a flavor thing and has nothing to do with usability. Ever though I grow older and older, I am the type of person that keep switching to the new stuff as it comes out, mostly. That's why I guess to me IRC feels outdated and yesterday
... It's just that comparing to today's possibilities in technology ... (there is such wonderful videoconferencing software existing today all over)
To resume, I wish Cyberspace was already existing, hehe.
But my personal wishes aside, the interface is very important to help make chat easy to use even for "non-geeks". I feel regular IRC with it's usual interfaces doesn't connect with the world at large, but only to an handful of "know-how" or "nostalgics".
A few years ago still, the internet was mostly populated with geeks. These days everybody is using it. My grand-mother in her mid eighty's is using internet to play cards with her daughters 500 miles away and uses MSN and checks a few web pages. She also uses gaming web sites (card games, mostly) with logins and integrated chat (and even voice chat) while playing. I don't subscribe to cable TV anymore but get my news, videos or written, from the net. I watch my favorite TV shows (and anime!) from the net. I buy e-books from the net and put them on my pocket-pc (which happens to also be my phone end portable video and mp3 player) to read in my bed at night.
It is an example to reflect that all kind of ppl use the internet nowadays, for everything. The internet and this site should change and adapt to offer better interfaces that doesn't require geek knowledge or obscures /slash commands to use.
The same is/has happened to DnD. More and more "less geeky than before" ppl are playing these days with the regained popularity from 3e and I feel 4e will continue that trend even more. Many of those ppl are potential ENWorld newcomers.
Therefore for the future (either immediate or in a few years) I think ENWorld should ensure to have the best Interface possible in all of it's components for the most pleasing and ease of use experience while consulting and using the site. Us geeks don't mind a few kinks, we sometimes even "like" it, hehe. But the rest of the crowd doesn't.
All of this is theoretical of course and I have no direct suggestion for technologies or platforms to use. But I think such values should be considered when using platforms and interfaces for all components of this site (or any site these days).
Why not replace chat with videoconferencing? *wink* Or integrated voice chat? (Ok I am going way too far, hehe)
Last edit : a better resume of my thoughts would be "there's a reason windows replaced DOS".
Last edited:
Vempyre
Explorer
genshou said:
But that's for tech savvy ppl and nostalgics. None of us truly want to go back to DOS, we just wish windows was more stable. That a marked difference, hehe. The public at large wants nothing to do with DOS-like stuff and usability.
That's why the public at large doesn't use IRC chat rooms. If we could find a better interface for them to use it, it's number of users would grow.
fett527
First Post
I'm gonna comment here as I find this quite interesting and humorous as I am fed up with flashchat at CircvsMaximvs.
Don't know if thatdarncat et al remember but I ran the adopted IRC chat for NTL for a time. With that crowd it was quite popular and as I am a chatwhore the flashchat becomes quite unbearable. Now, if that's due to buggy app, bandwidth or whatever and can be fixed great. But as soon as I stop being lazy I was going to setup an IRC room and see if peops at CM would use it as IRC rocks balls vs flashchat.
I do hope the plan is to keep IRC and use a web client interface.
Don't know if thatdarncat et al remember but I ran the adopted IRC chat for NTL for a time. With that crowd it was quite popular and as I am a chatwhore the flashchat becomes quite unbearable. Now, if that's due to buggy app, bandwidth or whatever and can be fixed great. But as soon as I stop being lazy I was going to setup an IRC room and see if peops at CM would use it as IRC rocks balls vs flashchat.
I do hope the plan is to keep IRC and use a web client interface.
IronWolf
blank
fett527 said:
So true. I *hate* flashchat. I much prefer IRC for chat, people have their choice of clients and can use the one that they prefer instead of being forced into a client they do not want to use or is particularly buggy on the platform they choose to use.
fett527 said:
These seems the most sane solution. Folks can use their client of choice or a web client to make it a little easier on folks that don't want to deal with a full on IRC chat client.
Bynw
The Oyarsa of IRC
Just as an FYI .... for those that feel regular IRC with it's usual interfaces doesn't connect with the world at large, but only to an handful of "know-how" or "nostalgics".
According to the IRC site of irc.netsplit.de which tracks IRC usage ...
There are currently 842 known networks, with 5859 servers, 518762 channels with 926110 users.
The slash commands are only needed for commands. General chatting doesnt require any.
According to the IRC site of irc.netsplit.de which tracks IRC usage ...
There are currently 842 known networks, with 5859 servers, 518762 channels with 926110 users.
The slash commands are only needed for commands. General chatting doesnt require any.
thatdarncat
Overlord of Chat
Really, the only slash commands needed are "/me" for actions, "/nick" to change your nickname if needed and "/msg nickserv identify" for logging into your nickname. Maybe "/join" if you want to visit other channels.
genshou
First Post
I find "/msg nickserv identify" takes too long to type. I prefer "/ns id". Those first three are the only commands I generally use outside of channel ownership.
Bynw's right. IRC does the job better than any fancy new chat programs have, and that's why people keep using it. Just because we have really advanced computers compared to the early 80's doesn't mean we've suddenly stopped using keyboards as a general feature. We're also still using hammers, shovels, sacks, pants, and hinged wooden doors.
Those first three are the only commands I generally use outside of channel ownership.Bynw's right. IRC does the job better than any fancy new chat programs have, and that's why people keep using it. Just because we have really advanced computers compared to the early 80's doesn't mean we've suddenly stopped using keyboards as a general feature. We're also still using hammers, shovels, sacks, pants, and hinged wooden doors.
IIsi 50MHz
First Post
Ahem...I could reply about multiple alternate commands, aliases, and extra commands that are "Important!" to me, but I think that requires another thread. I'm too lazy to make another thread
On a more related vein: in-browser IRC clients, Flash chats, and most instant messengers have an advantage over IRC by working "out of the box" without requiring the user to manually dig up a server name and port, find out where to put them, hope that the server has something of relevance, find out how to get someplace with actual users (a channel, rather than server status messages: "It says connected, but I don't see anybody talking or any users!"). Messengers generally have a much more friendly sign-up process, too. NickServ works differently from network to network, generally requires longer login sequences, and requires extra user training for the user to be able to make the IRC client "integrate" NickServ such that signing on to the server actually /signs you on/ rather than resulting in being muted and/or changed into Guest283501 (or similar). NickServ may not even be present.
I guess, new IRC users who are at least a little familiar with "signing into a service" expect it to work the same way: you download the software, double-click, get led through username and password creation, confirm, and Bam--you get presented with options, buttons, or lists of people. Later, you go back by just double-clicking the programme. Bam! There are your people, or email messages, or buttons for doing your banking... None of this "Ok, I installed the programme; now it's asking me for all this other crap. Some of it sounds like the same thing (username/nickname/userid). Why does it want my real name? How do I find what to put in the Server and Port boxes? Hmm, it says it connected and a whole lot of stuff just /flew/ past. I can't see any people or rooms..." or, later "What do you MEAN I wasn't on the same server as you? I don't want to go through that setup again. I'm just uninstalling this crap!". And don't get me started on netsplits.
Argh, I'm giving Micheal_Morrus fuel. ^_^;;; Give me logging and scripting, or give me death! This is what happens when I try to be on-topic while irritated about unrelated things: rant mode, and feeding the "enemy".
MM, will this new EN World have the go-faster stripes? I'd love to see a light-weight layout that loads in a jiffy--or, for that Googley feeling, one that has features galore, but loads most of the in the background and reuses cached code to due lots of client-side snazziness. Or, nevermind. I'll just sit here hugging my various IRC clients and wait for the final show, shall I?
Thinking of chat, I think I'll have decent time for it this week, at last. Whew!
--
IIsi "Rambling" 50MHz
Chanop
irc://irc.otherworlders.org/#dnd3e
On a more related vein: in-browser IRC clients, Flash chats, and most instant messengers have an advantage over IRC by working "out of the box" without requiring the user to manually dig up a server name and port, find out where to put them, hope that the server has something of relevance, find out how to get someplace with actual users (a channel, rather than server status messages: "It says connected, but I don't see anybody talking or any users!"). Messengers generally have a much more friendly sign-up process, too. NickServ works differently from network to network, generally requires longer login sequences, and requires extra user training for the user to be able to make the IRC client "integrate" NickServ such that signing on to the server actually /signs you on/ rather than resulting in being muted and/or changed into Guest283501 (or similar). NickServ may not even be present.
I guess, new IRC users who are at least a little familiar with "signing into a service" expect it to work the same way: you download the software, double-click, get led through username and password creation, confirm, and Bam--you get presented with options, buttons, or lists of people. Later, you go back by just double-clicking the programme. Bam! There are your people, or email messages, or buttons for doing your banking... None of this "Ok, I installed the programme; now it's asking me for all this other crap. Some of it sounds like the same thing (username/nickname/userid). Why does it want my real name? How do I find what to put in the Server and Port boxes? Hmm, it says it connected and a whole lot of stuff just /flew/ past. I can't see any people or rooms..." or, later "What do you MEAN I wasn't on the same server as you? I don't want to go through that setup again. I'm just uninstalling this crap!". And don't get me started on netsplits.
Argh, I'm giving Micheal_Morrus fuel. ^_^;;; Give me logging and scripting, or give me death! This is what happens when I try to be on-topic while irritated about unrelated things: rant mode, and feeding the "enemy".
MM, will this new EN World have the go-faster stripes? I'd love to see a light-weight layout that loads in a jiffy--or, for that Googley feeling, one that has features galore, but loads most of the in the background and reuses cached code to due lots of client-side snazziness. Or, nevermind. I'll just sit here hugging my various IRC clients and wait for the final show, shall I?
Thinking of chat, I think I'll have decent time for it this week, at last. Whew!
--
IIsi "Rambling" 50MHz
Chanop
irc://irc.otherworlders.org/#dnd3e
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