Cheap, disposable wands of cure light wounds--pros & cons?

[Felon]

Looking over an old 1e dungeon you might notice how pointless many of the hazards and encounters would be in 3rd edition. Take the classic spear-behind-the-door trap (q.v. Tomb of Horrors). It's a just single attack that will jump out and damage a character, and beyond a certain level the characters can probably expect to survive a direct hit. The net loss will be to burn a charge or off a wand of cure light wounds.

In previous editions, hit points and cures were both a resource that had to be rationed and protected, much like you would your own life-blood, so even a trap that didn't kill a player outright would create a tense moment when the cleric has to work his mojo. It was like a doctor performing a life-or-death surgery. And more often than not, a character would simply press on with a reduction in their hit points.

In this edition, that sort of thinking is aberrant. Hit points are expected to be replenished as soon as the healer has a minute to spare. Dealing with a vicious wound from a giant spring-loaded spear has all the tension of slapping on a band-aid. Once players become acclimated to this happening, it just becomes a pointless routine devoid of any excitement.

Thoughts?

 

[Crothian]

In this edition, that sort of thinking is aberrant. Hit points are expected to be replenished as soon as the healer has a minute to spare.

Thoughts?

Not in out grouip. You get healed when I'm damn good and ready to heal you. And if I blow all my spells on buffing myself, you'll deal with it. /Ironwolf

We heal some but rarely do people get to full unless the dice are doing well or a single viger spell gets them there. I have not seen this kind of healing expectations in 3e.

 

[Hussar]

Looking over an old 1e dungeon you might notice how pointless many of the hazards and encounters would be in 3rd edition. Take the classic spear-behind-the-door trap (q.v. Tomb of Horrors). It's a just single attack that will jump out and damage a character, and beyond a certain level the characters can probably expect to survive a direct hit. The net loss will be to burn a charge or off a wand of cure light wounds.

In previous editions, hit points and cures were both a resource that had to be rationed and protected, much like you would your own life-blood, so even a trap that didn't kill a player outright would create a tense moment when the cleric has to work his mojo. It was like a doctor performing a life-or-death surgery. And more often than not, a character would simply press on with a reduction in their hit points.

In this edition, that sort of thinking is aberrant. Hit points are expected to be replenished as soon as the healer has a minute to spare. Dealing with a vicious wound from a giant spring-loaded spear has all the tension of slapping on a band-aid. Once players become acclimated to this happening, it just becomes a pointless routine devoid of any excitement.

Thoughts?

About the only difference I see between 1e and 3e in this regard is we sleep less in 3e. In 1e, we rested EVERY time we could. Why not? Most of the time, you could negate wandering monsters with a few simple precautions (wizard lock the door was a fav) and then retreat to heal.

Then again, in 1e, we had so many potions of healing, staffs of healing, rods of resurrection, etc. that it was never an issue. Ah the joys of playing modules. HEAPS of magical loot to keep you going.

 

[MerricB]

My experience of 3e is that it is a lot more *brutal* in damage than 1e. In 1e, melee combat would normally be attritional - a lot of d8 hits over the combat would kill you (or one save or die effect). In 3e, two big hits would kill you. See damage of Ogres and Giants.

Having less than full hp in 3e will kill you.

In combat, the cleric often *needs* to use a high-value healing spell on the fighter, which severely restricts his other options. Sure, the wand of cure light wounds is great for restoring the party after combat (although at high levels, even its usefulness is restricted), but in combat, it's nearly useless.

Cheers!

 

[ThirdWizard]

Disposable wands aren't the problem. They're a sort of patch.

In 1st edition AD&D, most damage came from the die. So, an ogre would do 1d8+2 damage or 2d6+2 damage or something like that. In 2e, this was slightly increased, but not much so. 3e highly increased monster damage by increasing the +'s given by strength much more significantly.

However, at the same time, we have the same amount of healing being done by cure spells. This is slightly offset by the ability of the cleric to spontaneously cast cure spells. As a result, a cleric can use most of his spells to heal without having to prepare them. I think this is what masks the effects of the higher damage and same healing for the most part. Now a cleric can drop all his spells for healing instead of running out like they did in earlier editions.

This means the cleric will spend more time healing for the same or less benefit as a 1st or 2nd edition cleric did, and they get to use their other spells even less often. Cure wands have basically become necessary now because if you go into a battle without full hp you are pretty much asking to die. This has built a relyance on smaller incremental healing, taken away from the cleric class, and made battles much deadlier and much shorter than they were previously.

The cleric being able to spontaneously cast cure spells is part of the problem. Because he can, balance has to take it into account. But, if he couldn't it would encourage him to prep lots of cure spells anyway, the problem experienced in prevous editions, so he would get to use the other spells anyway. It's a catch 22 on the cleric.

I like the spontaneous use of cure spells, don't get me wrong. I don't feel like it completely solves the problem, however. I've just seen so many battles go with the tank with lots of hp one round, and the monster brings him down 60 hp in one round, and the cleric has to heal, but can't get him back where he was. Then the next round the tank goes lower, and lower, while the cleric desperately tries to keep up.

In this kind of environment, you can't leave people at lower than full hp if you have the chance. Somebody is going to die if you do that. Sure, maybe not in the next battle. Or even in the battle after that. But, eventually you'll hit a hard fight where the cleric can't keep up and if they aren't fully prepared, somebody will die.

Thus, cure wands can become a necessity very quickly.

 

[blargney the second]

Just slap some poison on the spear.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Just to re-iterate what others have already said, by way of an anecdote --

There was a player in my group whose character (a ranger) took the Brew Potion feat. Now, that's an... interesting... feat choice. But at least he could make some potions of cat's grace or something useful like that, right? No. Instead, he started making potions of cure light wounds.

Finally I couldn't take it any more, and I said, "Stop making those stupid CLW potions!"

"Why?" he asked. "They are healing, and healing is good."

"Yes," I replied, "healing is good, but not 1d8+5 when you're 12th level -- that's not even close to being worth a round of combat to drink."

And that's what it is all about. In combat, you want the maximum healing you can get (appropriate to your level / max hitpoints). Wands of CLW are great for between-combat healing, but they are next to useless for during-combat battlefield medicine.

Anyway... this is a long winded way of agreeing with MerricB and ThirdWizard.

 

[DestroyYouAlot]

I gotta say, the thing I do like about it is that - if the PCs are willing to risk it - you can have a successful adventuring party without a cleric. My group got by without a cleric from levels 3-5, with just a bard (3 CLWs a day) and a CLW wand they bought at a Thayan enclave. (Yeah, it's FR, so it's pretty high-magic, but not at the level most people seem to run it at - I'm a leftover from Ye Olden Days in that respect.) They came close to disaster a few times, but they managed to pull it off. (The fact that the insane dwarven rager ended up taking most of the knocks helped, some.) For that matter, carrying that wand around probably ended up saving their bacon, as they were able to CLW a mummy to [un-un-]death before they got too messed up by it. Not too shabby, all things considered.

 

[Sejs]

Not in out grouip. You get healed when I'm damn good and ready to heal you. And if I blow all my spells on buffing myself, you'll deal with it. /Ironwolf.

Heh, or as been said in my group:

"I've got a better idea - how about I slap you around until you need a real heal."

Aah, dwarven clerics.

 

[brehobit]

We heal some but rarely do people get to full unless the dice are doing well or a single viger spell gets them there. I have not seen this kind of healing expectations in 3e.

I _always_ heal people to full, or at least within 2 or 3 of full. And I'm playing a ranger with a wand.

The money saved on the charge just ain't worth diein' over.

This assumes you are in a world (say Sharn in Eberron) where buying level 1 wants is as easy as buying a masterwork greatsword or full plate.