D&D 5E Choosing NOT to Long Rest?

[AaronOfBarbaria]

No they don't? They actually proof my point.

See the link that [MENTION=79912]ProphetSword[/MENTION] posted above.

Jeremy pretty clearly states that sleep is required (except for elves).

No word in Jeremy's tweet is synonymous with "require" or any words which use that word as a root.

 

[Jer]

Um...as a (native) reader of English, I always read the 2 hours as referencing standing watch. Seems like most others read it that way, too.

Like I said that's how most English readers would read that sentence. But it is ambiguous because because prepositional phrase attachment in English is really, really annoying and so I can see how Rya.Reisender (or anyone else) could come up with that reading - especially if they're reading the sentence with a presupposition that of course you don't restore D&D spells without a "good night's sleep" (which is pretty much how previous editions of the game have handwaved getting back resources like that). But it's not the way I'd expect it to be phrased if the requirement actually were "no less than 6 hours of sleep for a long rest" and the ambiguity in the sentence really does push the intent towards the reading you have.

 

[ProphetSword]

Just want to post this again and explain how the clarified rules (which are posted on WotC's website) answer most of the questions in this thread, in case there is any confusion. Here is the text again:

A long rest is a period of relaxation that is at least 8 hours long. It can contain sleep, reading, talking, eating, and other restful activity. Standing watch is even possible during it, but for no more than 2 hours; maintaining heightened vigilance any longer than that isn’t restful. In short, a long rest and sleep aren’t the same thing; you can sleep when you’re not taking a long rest, and you can take a long rest and not sleep.


Here's what we learn from this:

- The reference to 2 hours in the PHB only refers to standing watch, not to the other light activities.
- You are not required to sleep at all during a long rest.
- You can sleep and not be taking a long rest, as sleeping and a long rest are not the same thing.
- It has to be at least 8 hours long, but can be longer.

Going back to the message the OP posted: Can a PC choose to NOT Long Rest even though they are not engaging in strenuous activity for 8 hours?

I think the rule answers that WotC posted clarifies that a PC can choose to NOT take a Long Rest, as the final sentence posted above make it seem as though the player willfully chooses when they are taking a Long Rest, and not all periods of downtime are automatically Long Rests. That's my takeaway, but opinions could vary. As far as RAW is concerned, I think there isn't any doubt that a player can be at ease for 8 hours or more and not be taking a Long Rest.

Naturally, a DM can choose to not take any of this into account and continue to do as they wish at their own table.

 

[Arial Black]

If, for whatever reason, you do not want the benefits of a long rest even though you are relaxing for 8 hours, or more likely just want to decide for yourself when you get your slots back, you have two things to help you:-

1.) You can only benefit from one long rest per day, therefore you can relax for 8 hours quite soon after the long rest which you did benefit from and it won't impact your preferred slot-regaining schedule

2.) If you find yourself in a relaxing situation when it would normally be beneficial, and for whatever reason you do not want the benefits yet, then simply stay on watch for 2 hours and 1 minute so that you do not qualify for the long rest benefits.

If you choose to attempt such manipulation, the DM should not give you artificial roadblocks to those choices, but be aware that there are plenty of totally plausible things that can mess up your carefully-laid plans and leave you exhausted AND slotless at an inconvenient time! Do so at your own risk!

 

[designbot]

Regarding a requirement for characters to actually sleep… the closest the rules come to addressing this is in the description of Constitution checks (PHB 177):

The DM might call for a Constitution check when you try to accomplish tasks like the following:

• Hold your breath
• March or labor for hours without rest
• Go without sleep
• Survive without food or water
• Quaff an entire stein of ale in one go

Now, it says "might," and it doesn't specify any particular consequence.

The rulings that various people have described of requiring increasing Constitution saves each day to avoid taking a level of exhaustion make a lot of sense and don't conflict with the rules, but they are DM rulings. I'm not sure why that wasn't spelled out in the rules. I would guess that it was under consideration at one point and they thought it was too complicated or just didn't get around to it. (The description of the elf's trance still says "After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep," which has no specific mechanical impact.)

 

[designbot]

The 6th printing of the Players' Handbook finally clarifies this!

Old version:

A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours.

New version (from the errata):

A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.

I think this is a big improvement.

 

[BookBarbarian]

This issue came up in Critical Role. The barbarian had a Sword that gained power as he struck enemies with it, but the power would go away on a short or long rest. In an attempt to avoid resting, he spent everyone else's rest time keeping watch and aggressively pacing, to keep his heart rate up.

This is the kind of trade off i like on a magic item. Power that comes at a cost.

 

[Croesus]

A question for those of you who advocate the notion that rests just "happen" if PCs are not engaging in sufficiently strenuous activity for a sufficient period of time:
Can a PC choose to NOT Long Rest even though they are not engaging in strenuous activity for 8 hours?
If Long Rests just "happen", and they are limited to one per 24 hours, then you'd think the party wizard could get screwed by being forced into a Long Rest when he hasn't cast any spells yet. And he then has to wait 24 hours before he can Long Rest again...

This issue came up in Critical Role. The barbarian had a Sword that gained power as he struck enemies with it, but the power would go away on a short or long rest. In an attempt to avoid resting, he spent everyone else's rest time keeping watch and aggressively pacing, to keep his heart rate up.

I wouldn't allow this for a simple reason: the player is trying to rules-lawyer a limitation on the item or class ability. To me, this is no different than the old "bag of rats" problem - even if the rules say something is technically valid, the GM should run the game as intended. Looking at the sword described, the intent seems clear - the sword gains power for a time as the barbarian fights, but loses that power over time. Tying the sword's power to the barbarian's heart rate seems (and is) silly.

For whatever reasons, 5E uses 'short rest/long rest' to represent time passing. Some things can be done only a few times per hour/day/week/whatever. A player trying to use the literal rule to defeat the intended rule is not to be encouraged. So, going back to the original post, a character trying to game the daily spellcasting rules would not get any sympathy from me.

Now, if a player asked if he could exert himself to hang onto the sword's power longer than normal, I'd consider it. If allowed, I'd require a check of some sort (with increasing DC), as well as other penalties, such as accelerated exhaustion levels (one per hour maybe). This wouldn't be the player trying to game the system, but coming up with a cool idea and working with the GM to implement it. I'd make it difficult enough that it wouldn't override the sword's design, but would still allow the character to do something heroic in dramatic circumstances.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Looking at the sword described, the intent seems clear - the sword gains power for a time as the barbarian fights, but loses that power over time. Tying the sword's power to the barbarian's heart rate seems (and is) silly.

5e (and, presumably, any cool new magic item for it) is written in natural language. So if you say something goes away when your rest, the intent is probably that it goes away when you rest.

For whatever reasons, 5E uses 'short rest/long rest' to represent time passing.

Actually, it uses hours. Rests are an activity (no irony intended) that take a certain* number of hours - 1 & 8 by default - those hours pass whether you rest or not.

If the item were meant to have power that faded over time, rather than with the state of its wielder, it'd just lose some fraction of it's power per hour or day. Either way, a rules-lawyer would likely find a way to 'game' it.












* or, if I'm running, an uncertain number of hours, depending on the circumstances and pacing of the campaign at the time.

 

[Caliban]

In 5e, when they want an magic item to regain or lose an ability regardless of your activity, they'll say 'until the next dawn'.

Example:

Cape of the Mountebank


This cape smells faintly of brimstone. While wearing it, you can use it to cast the Dimension Door spell as an action. This property of the cape can't be used again until the next dawn.
(rest of the entry not included.)

Given that, if the item specified losing an ability or recharging an ability on a rest, I'd assume that is exactly what they mean.