Christian Persecution vs Persecuted Christians

[Sadras]

It is true, networking plays a big role in politics, but what I was saying is that your education requirement is a filter that will keep some people out without preventing corruption and incompetence. So, what would an education requirement really do, aside from preventing some moral, competent, intelligent people from office?

It will provide someone with the same background in education whom I feel comfortable with in being a president and has a level of education that I can at least respect.
In South Africa many African tribes mutilate their young boys with traditional circumcision at the age of 16+/-. Our president, a Zulu, wasn't afforded that luxury so many Xhosa and other black tribes do not view our current president as a Man. We all have our requirements.

Will it help curb corruption. No.
Will it help curb incompetence. I don't know.
Will it help bring a modicum of respect to the position: Yes it will.

Your making a false analogy.

Please elaborate how this is a false analogy.

That is a rather elitist view of who should be in office.

I know right. I mean I'm being really outrageous asking for this. It is true the Academy for Butlers in Canada asks applicants for a transcript that proves graduation from high school as does the US Mail Service, but I'm really taking it to the next level requiring a president of a country have this as a requirement. It is simply mad! Too ludicrous for words.

It means who gets to decide what is the right education needed to become president? The politico-economic elites will want people like it to represent it. So most likely a university degree will be required...(snip)

You were just rambling here so I cut you off, cause I know we were only discussing about a high school certificate not a degree...just ensuring straw men are kept to a minimum.

A child's "sins", to use your vocabulary,

Umbran's originally actually.

is the parents' fault because it didn't enforce violent punishement to correct behavior. That violence is the way to foster civic virtues.

It can enforce discipline in kids, that is my stance. Can it be abused - sure, but I don't see us banning guns, alcohol and sugar. I also don't see us banning Catholic Priests.

It ignores external factors, like say the impact of apartheid...(snip)

You do realise that I never said it does, but I feel he is coming, I can feel it....

But I guess apartheid was just being strick with a population that like children wasn't mature enough to govern itself.

And here he is!!! 10 feet of pure unadulterated straw man!

Again, a false analogy.

Again, elaborate.

University is education...(snip)

Good of you to notice, but I feel the need to rail you in a little because you really love these straw men, my punishment was for varsity kids. Adults in terms of South Africa.

Althought, from what you said there does seem to be elements of free speech in what they did.

As long as there is no destruction of public and heritage property which there was...

Thanks for demonstrating my point.

Correction, I answered your question.

Also, is the percentage of white prisoner the same as in the general population?

Absolutely no idea. I feel I need to point out that in South Africa the term 'coloured' is a mix-breed between a black and a white person which is a racial group on its own and is almost on par in terms of numbers with Whites. Cape Malays fall into that coloured group. But the composition of the various categories in jail - is in the hands of google.

Maybe if it had more policies like Norway it would be more like Norway.

You expect to integrate a society into Western Culture over night or even over 10 years. You have no idea the baggage we have - never mind white vs black, we have coloured vs black, coloured vs white, black vs black and 13 official languages, African culture which includes believing in muti medicine (google it), and the political structure/society/laws of the tribal kings/chiefs...etc
Nevermind the socio-political-economic messup that Apartheid caused.

So, black people would be disproportionately affected by your education requirement for the presidency, no?

No.

You're not denying it is exploitation.

No. But why don't you go enjoy our rape statistics and let me know who exactly is being exploited. Is it these men, or is it our women that are being exploited.

You also do not mind that using prisoners takes away paying jobs for the general population.

It really wouldn't. It would be allowing the government to spend more on education, healthcare, housing...etc and of course corruption.

And, if black people are over represented in prisons, that they would be more exploited in your prefered system.

Sure. But I don't see colour, I see criminals - that is the difference between you and I.

Here is a startling statistic about Canadian prisons: "9.5 per cent of federal inmates today are Black (an increase of 80 per cent since 2003/04), yet Black Canadians account for less than three per cent of the total Canadian population. Aboriginal people represent a staggering 23 per cent of federal inmates yet comprise 4.3 per cent of the total Canadian population.” -

We had Apartheid, what was your excuse? I'm curious as to what kind of programmes are you running over there, that are assisting your black people with their civic duties?

That being said, I agree with you that capitalism is a system based on violence, exploitation and inequality. The problem is that your solutions foster violence, exploitation and inequality.

Well we aren't going to agree and that is fine.

Ringing bells are synonymous with shame? Is that an Afrikaner meme?

No. Its a modern cultural reference.

But to add, that your country, along with UK, New Zealand and Australia are becoming the havens of the Afrikaners and other whites and even coloureds as things become progressively worse in South Africa.

 

[Kramodlog]

It will provide someone with the same background in education whom I feel comfortable with in being a president and has a level of education that I can at least respect.

There is a process called elections were you can cast a vote to express that opinion.

You were just rambling here so I cut you off, cause I know we were only discussing about a high school certificate not a degree...just ensuring straw men are kept to a minimum.

I was talking about what the politico-economic elite might want. But a high school degree still excludes people.

It can enforce discipline in kids, that is my stance.

And there is not garanty of success. There are garanties of problems, as Umbran showed.

Can it be abused - sure, but I don't see us banning guns, alcohol and sugar. I also don't see us banning Catholic Priests.

There are laws to control the first two, and sugar is coming along. Domestic violence as been going down since we made it illegal and had campaigns denouncing it.

Good of you to notice, but I feel the need to rail you in a little because you really love these straw men, my punishment was for varsity kids. Adults in terms of South Africa.

Adults still get a right to education. Generally it is university level...

As long as there is no destruction of public and heritage property which there was...

Dung destroys property? I thought is just made it dirty.

Absolutely no idea. I feel I need to point out that in South Africa the term 'coloured' is a mix-breed between a black and a white person which is a racial group on its own and is almost on par in terms of numbers with Whites. Cape Malays fall into that coloured group. But the composition of the various categories in jail - is in the hands of google.

Ignorance is bliss, it would seem.

You expect to integrate a society into Western Culture over night or even over 10 years.

No, I do not. I'm saying change needs to start somewhere and there are good models out there.

No.

How wouldn't they? Don't black people have less high school degrees than say white people in SA?

No. But why don't you go enjoy our rape statistics and let me know who exactly is being exploited. Is it these men, or is it our women that are being exploited.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

It really wouldn't.

Sure it would. It would mean less low skill jobs would be out there for people who need them to make ends meet.

Sure. But I don't see colour, I see criminals - that is the difference between you and I.

You see black people as criminals?

Here is a startling statistic about Canadian prisons: "9.5 per cent of federal inmates today are Black (an increase of 80 per cent since 2003/04), yet Black Canadians account for less than three per cent of the total Canadian population. Aboriginal people represent a staggering 23 per cent of federal inmates yet comprise 4.3 per cent of the total Canadian population.” -

We had Apartheid, what was your excuse?

Colonialism. Cultural genocide. Institutionalized racism. General indifference from the non-Aboriginale majority. Those are the explanations for that sad statistic. Aboriginales are really that the low end of the social pyramid in Canada.

I'm curious as to what kind of programmes are you running over there, that are assisting your black people with their civic duties?

Canadians and there government aren't doing enough, that is for sure. So?

Well we aren't going to agree and that is fine.

What? You want to smack children, exploite prisoners and exclude people, mostly black people, from political participation. Why should I agree?

No. Its a modern cultural reference.

First time I heard of it.

But to add, that your country, along with UK, New Zealand and Australia are becoming the havens of the Afrikaners and other whites and even coloureds as things become progressively worse in South Africa.

Damn it! It is the invasion of the Loyalists all over again!

 

[Janx]

I know about the cynicism and dysfunction within his administration. There is cynicism and dysfunction within *EVERY* administration. If we require there to be no cynicism or dysfunction for a Presidency to be good, then there's no such thing as a good Presidency. So, I submit these are unavoidable and irrelevant - they are about how the sausage is made, not about whether the sausage is good.

I'm often a practical person - I care mostly about results. So long as they cynicism and dysfunction remain internal to the administration, and the output is actually good for the people, my sweating of the details will be somewhat limited. To be honest, if Kennedy were personally a racist pig, and only put forth the Civil Rights Act for purposes of getting re-elected, I'd still say, hey, we got the CRA! Awesome!

Along that line, I recall that Johnson himself had said some racist stuff. Yet he clearly came down on the side of intregration and equality when you look at what he got done

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Kudos to the City attorney and a couple of council members for saying & doing the right thing, even if the majority was *ahem* hellbent on this misguided course of action.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...es_for_christian_only_prayers_aclu_warns.html

Really tired of American theocrats.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

After Hudelson moved to amend the resolution to permit only Christian prayer, city attorney Denis Fitzgibbons explained that this would violate the Constitution. “That would complicate things,” Fitzgibbons jumped in: “The council would then be establishing Christianity (as the religion).”

No matter. Lewis seconded the amendment, and it passed.

Why do they even have a city attorney if they're not going to listen to him?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

To advise them when the inevitable occurs.












...which they'll ignore.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Right, so why have a lawyer if you're going to ignore his legal advice? You'd think conservatives would want to save the taxpayers money. City attorney is an expense this city can cut.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

They don't care about the legalities because they think they're:

1) taking a stand for their persecuted faith

OR

2) showing God's majesty by exercising secular power.

...and are wrong on both counts.

BUT...

When they lose the lawsuit that can't help but happen, they can point at the verdicts as proof of persecution.

...which is wrong, of course.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

Isn't reducing the size of government, and saving taxpayers money a religious belief among conservatives?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

When 2 beliefs are in conflict, one will eventually give.