city maps

[Leopold]

The Forge would be nice...

...maybe showing how those airships dock also...

well i for one have no idea how the strongholds are layed out. Except for skakutor which is done already more or less, the rest are really vague. Anyone care to enlighten us on the structure and layout. Perhaps contact mythandlore or LRK can do some basic maps for them/?

 

[Imperialus]

I think maps are a good idea, the thing is the strongholds are so huge it would be nigh impossible to make detailed maps without them being at least as big as a moderen city map. I mean most of these places have hundreds of thousands of inhabitants with dozens of districts and neighborhoods. Basically what I plan on doing with my group for Egran at least is takeing a 15th century map of london and scaleing it up big time. Egran would be especially difficult to do since as the city has expanded beyond the city walls they have put up sucessive rings of curtan walls and the whole city has turned into a maze that even the inhabitants have a difficult time finding their way around. The central districts of Egran in praticular where the inital refugees settled would be a nightmare.

 

[Leopold]

see the killer here is WHO? Who can we get to do this? Is there a program that can autocatically layout a city with a set of guidelines to follow?

 

[MythandLore]

Who can we get to do this?

If I had the time...

Is there a program that can autocatically layout a city with a set of guidelines to follow?

None that I know of, but I'll show you what I did tonight while working on just that problem.
I did it in photoshop.

I think maps are a good idea, the thing is the strongholds are so huge it would be nigh impossible to make detailed maps without them being at least as big as a moderen city map.

I'll show you what I was doing and maybe it will give us some ideas.
It's still is a nightmarish task.

You can see scans of what I did here:
http://mythandlore1776.tripod.com/mapideas/
(it seems we can't do attachments again)

1) Okay first I scaned a map of silverymoon from the forgotten Realms, it has a pop of 26,000

2) Then I added to it more buildings to about triple it's pop to around 75,000

3) Then I added to it more to about double that to around 150,000, This could be a good way to figure out how we have to make the citys on the maps.

4) Then I scanned in a small map.

I think we should do the maps like #3 just to give a good idea of the feel of the city and it landmarks, then do close up veiws like #4 around important areas that people are likely to play around.
This is a big task, they used to make whole box sets around ideas like this.
So pretty much using the population of a city and thumbnail drawings of were things are placed in it, we could probably pull off some useable maps.
Well, at least I think we 'could'.
So what do you guys think?

 

[Leopold]

well scanning in someone elses work and then editing is not something I can condone..it's too much on the cutting edge. Now if someone in the group drew a picture and scanned it in that would work.


but Yes picture 3 is probably one of the bigger strongholds and going to look similar to what we need to do. I think Egran will be similar to Aragorn's city in LOTR if i am not mistaken, with it's walled structure. Skarkutor will be a big walled city with evenly spaced out buildings and around a central tower. The forge will be a dwarven nightmarish place full of forges, passageways, roads that lead nowhere, traps etc.

 

[The Burned Man]

Stronghold text, with districts and stuff that Grey One came up with...

http://www.d20reviews.com/Daemonforge/Strongholds/forge.htm

From the patron entry, the original concept part...

The Forge is the stronghold of the Lord of Blades, the self-proclaimed god of War and Artifice.

1. It is built on the crater that was formed atop a huge mountain when he slew one of the lords of hell and gained his divinity.

2.The crater is over 3 miles across and filled to the brink with life. Manufactures, forges, smelters and other facilities are built along the great wall that has been built along the crater rim and which surround the city.

3. Immediately next to the facilities most people live in simple one to two story buildings out of brick and rock, here the workers and the miners of the city reside unprotected from the pollution.

4. A secondary wall separates the less well of from the middle-class; the engineers, the artificers, officers, clergy, arcane scientists, administrators and traders reside here in enjoying a higher standard of living.

5. A third wall separates the city from the Seat of the Lord, where the master of the city and those closest to him reside; including his consorts and divine offspring.

 

[MythandLore]

well scanning in someone elses work and then editing is not something I can condone..it's too much on the cutting edge. Now if someone in the group drew a picture and scanned it in that would work.

Silly Leo, If you think I was going to wasted hours of work to make a point as to the size of the cities you guys are trying to do your nuts
As far as maps of your guy’s DF cities, I would think they would have to be done from scratch.
BTW - what do you mean by “it's too much on the cutting edge”

but Yes picture 3 is probably one of the bigger strongholds and going to look similar to what we need to do.

Exactly, seeing as you have no ‘plan view’ (top down view) maps of any of the cities that is what I was I trying to show.
Now we have something to gauge size off of.
Templemount has about the same size pop in the “city proper” as the city in map #3.
The hard thing is going to be stuff like ‘the forge’, which is something like more then 5 times the size of map #3. (yeah burnedman 3 miles across sounds about right for a city of 800,000 pact together)

I think Egran will be similar to Aragorn's city in LOTR if i am not mistaken, with it's walled structure. Skarkutor will be a big walled city with evenly spaced out buildings and around a central tower. The forge will be a dwarven nightmarish place full of forges, passageways, roads that lead nowhere, traps etc.

As far as a verbal description, I think we have enough of them to go off of on the website.
So now thumbnails would be more helpful for the most part to really show what has to be done, the person doing thumbnails doesn’t need to draw well just understand where stuff should be. (because I have a hard time making heads of tails of where things should be from verbal descriptions – once we have thumbnails everyone can say ether yes that’s right or no that should be like this – without wasting hours of work on a detailed map)
From there it’s all just plugging in stuff according to the size of the pop of the city.
If someone doesn't understand the idea of thumbnails I’ll try and post some latter.

It looks like there are already maps for Skarkutor
http://www.d20reviews.com/Daemonforge/Strongholds/skauk.htm
and Egran
http://www.d20reviews.com/Daemonforge/Strongholds/egran.htm
and Templemount
http://www.d20reviews.com/Daemonforge/Strongholds/Templemount.htm
Whether they are correct/useable or whatever I don’t, know but someone (looks like L.Ron) sure spent a lot of time on them already.
Though I do think for 'gameplay' plan view maps are the most useful for DM’s to use in their games to understand where things are.

 

[MythandLore]

Few questions about the Forge


I hope everyone had a good weekend.

I've been working on making a list of where and what kind of stuff in in the city of the Forge so I can do a map.
But I have some questions that have come up after looking over the info on it.

The City Proper
Manufacturing city
Contains thousands of war factories, forges, smelters and other heavy manufacturing facilities dot the crater's jagged rim along the city's massive outer wall

Is the rim "jagged" on the inside/outside of the wall?
What do you mean by jagged?
How tall is wall? How wide is Wall? What is wall made of?

Immediately next to the factories and smelters, the laborers live in simple one to two-story buildings made of brick and mortar stones
Here the workers and the miners of the city reside unprotected from the poisons churned out in the manufacturing districts
A second, less massive wall separates the lower caste from the expert caste

Is that the Wall of Chalvinus?
How tall is this wall? How wide is Wall? What is wall made of?

The engineers, the artificers, officers, clergy, arcane scientists, administrators and traders reside here in thick-walled structures,
Grand boulevards covered in glass
Large domed and sculptured gardens
A third more ominous wall separates the city from the Seat of the Lord

What wall is this?
How tall is wall? How wide is Wall? What is wall made of?

The master of the city and those closest to him reside
City's center, a tower, Shalum Stagh (the Spear of Vengeance)

The Rim District
Rim District encircles the entire city.
Creeping up the slopes of the crater and beyond the rim to the great outer wall

How wide is the Rim over the crater?
How deep is the crater

Rim District makes up at least half of the city.
Gray and red brick houses
Towering foundries and factories, smelters and forges
Many great squares
Several parks (tall and hardy evergreens)
Bucker's Row
Factor's Bowels

The District of Swords
Closed off from the Rim District by its own 50-high wall of granite blocks

What wall is this?
How tall is wall? How wide is Wall? What is wall made of?

High roofs and towers of black and green tile, tower above the wall surrounding the district.
Great sprawling barrack-halls fill the districts perimeter, housing thousands of warriors.
Legion barracks
Training grounds
The Hall of Battle Lore

The District of Black Iron
Between the encircling Rim District and the inner wards of the city is the infamous Wall of Chalvinus Twenty feet thick

How tall and what is it made of?

And divided by vast, circular towers at 200-foot intervals
Surmounted by bands of black iron that project outwards from the triangular battlements along the walkways, the feature has resulted in the Entire city-section beyond being named the District of Black Iron.

So the ‘District of Black Iron’ is made of many districts or it's own separate one?

The Wall of Chalvinus separates the vast multitude of workers and manufactories from the more specialized crafthalls, warehouses and residential tenements of the Master's Order.
The District is entirely surrounded by the Rim District except for the District of Swords, which rests astride the two

What side of districts does it rest astride?

In the east there are a number of specialized smelters and manufacturing facilities.
Residences around the Inner Wall abundance
Lord's Road, which enters the district from outside at the Grim Man's Gate hundreds of craft-shops

Grim Man's gate is on the wall of Chalvinus?

The Lord's Road follows the district's perimeter until it enters the Inner Ward and the Wayfarer's District at the Gnome Gate.

What wall is the Gnome gate part of?

Wall of Chalvinus - circular towers at 200-foot intervals
Specialized smelters and manufacturing facilities
Craft Shops
Residences
Grim Man's gate
Lord's Road
Gnome Gate

The Wayfarer's District
Sharing the bounds of the Inner Ward with the District of Valor, the District of the Mechanum and the District of the Faithful

Where is the District of Valor? -there is nothing written on it-

Gnomish Brotherhood walled compound northern edge of the district.
Southeast corner Shalum Stagh
Great loading towers and platforms
Warehouses front almost every street
inns and hostels abundance
Gnomish Brotherhood walled compound
Shalum Stagh

District of the Faithful
Here between the Wall of Chalvinus, the Wayfarer's District and the District of Valor
Smallest of the seven districts, except for the District of the Mechanum
3-4 story stone buildings on Quiet streets
Many sages, lorekeepers, scribes and shrines can also be found on the ground floors.
Row of Keill are the four great spiritual edifices of the city.

What are the four great spiritual edifices of the city?

The three outland Patron temples also serve as diplomatic hostelries for visiting dignitaries from the other strongholds
The sober and whitewashed walls of the Quiet Cathedral -Pale Lord
Sacresancuite is a low-walled compound of walled gardens - training grounds for followers Warrior Societies
At the center lies the yellow walled temple proper.

At the center of the District or the Sacresancuite?
The Abbey of Merryn
Is this the yellow walled temple?

The huge and grim temple of the Mechanum

So the temple Mechanum is it's own district?
The District of the Mechanum is inside this district?

Sits on the southern edge of the vast Square of Vigils (which itself takes up perhaps a quarter of the district proper)
Northwest edge of the district lies the Shalum Stagh, above Square of the Vigils.
3-4 story stone buildings
Row of Keill
Quiet Cathedral
Sacresancuite
Temple Mechanum
Abbey of Merryn
Buttressed towers of the various temples
Square of the Vigils
Shalum Stagh

District of the Mechanum
Northern edge of the inner ward lays the seventy-feet tall walls of the Mechanum

Walls are how wide and made of what?

well warded and well guarded walls.
two high gates into the district.

Major Noble Houses:
Consisting of the politicka, Bradovich, Davidolov, Polanskivick, Mutyn, Merryn, Gregorianovich, Terranovic, Rasmith, Tyne, Leiberhven, Doryal, Partridien, Duex'Marys

You listed 14 Noble houses - where in general would they be?

I'm having a very hard time trying to understand how each district relates to the others around it. If someone could thumbnail it out it would be of great help, I've tried and it's just to confusing.

Also how long and how many highways are there connected to the city? Are they in the mist so pretty much unuseable?

I can't seem to attach a image here still so I will post the thumbnail on my site

 

[MythandLore]

I posted the thumbnail (that I know is wrong) on my website here:
http://mythandlore1776.tripod.com/mapideas/

As you can see it doesn't have to be well drawn or anything, just give general ideas about where things should be placed (the districts and walls would be the most helpful).
If someone knows a lot about the city please make one so it's not so confusing.

 

[Leopold]

i thought it was some form of concentric circle collapsing upon itself?