City of the Spider Queen: Any tips?

[Nathan]

Hi!

I'm going to run the City of the Spider Queen adventure.

The adventure says that the game is for four PC. However, we will have six or seven PCs in the party. How would you adjust the encounters?

Do you have any important tips on how to run this campaign? For example if you've already played it.

Thank you.

Nathan

 

[Telor]

I'll lend you some advice

Spoilers A Likely Possibility!!

First off, what level are your characters? In my group, my 6 PCs were lvl 14-16 and for the first evening I didn't upgrade any of the baddies. It wasn't much of a problem, they still had some challenges to deal with. For the remainder of the module I upgraded every bad guy by 3-5 levels. I really enjoyed the upgrading process; it allowed me to personalize the great info already given to me.

CotSQ is a dungeon crawl that has very little opportunities to role-play for a good aligned group. I recommend having a few of the not-so-main bad guys attempt to talk to the group; I had the cleric that worships the slimes (I'm at work and I am terrible with remembering names) explain to the group that they missed the Szith Morcane house and the Inverted Tower. He explained that he wanted those in power removed and would stay out of the party's way. Then at the inverted tower I had Solom speak with the group. He explained a little about what was going on and that he wants a magocracy. Once again, he would like those in power removed so that he may create his own realm.

I like the idea that the drow are evil and will go to any length to further their own causes. They backstab eachother on a daily basis. Having two separate factions step in to pseudo-help the group has confused and scared them far more than having them face said drow in combat. Neither of these factions will actively help the group (obviously they're evil); they saved their skin by giving small pieces of information and they're allowing someone else to do their dirty work.

The bebiliths destroyed the main tank's armor in the crypts. Needless to say this chaotic fellow hates all drow for a new reason.

My group is nearing the end of Part 1 and I have much of my own prep work for Part 2 completed. If you have any specific questions, I will do my best to answer them for you.

-Telor

 

[Nathan]

Re: I'll lend you some advice

Hello, Telor!

First, much thanks for posting your experiences with this adventure.

Spoilers A Likely Possibility!!

First off, what level are your characters? In my group, my 6 PCs were lvl 14-16 and for the first evening I didn't upgrade any of the baddies.

They will start a 10th level (including ECL mods). The group will consist of

* an aasimar paladin
* a dwarven figther
* a NG elven bard
* a cleric(/rogue) of a deity of thievery
* a CN drow transmuter
+ 1 or 2 further characters.

Do you think this is balanced concerning the adventure?

It wasn't much of a problem, they still had some challenges to deal with. For the remainder of the module I upgraded every bad guy by 3-5 levels. I really enjoyed the upgrading process; it allowed me to personalize the great info already given to me.

So, you propose adding levels instead of adjusting the number of foes.

CotSQ is a dungeon crawl that has very little opportunities to role-play for a good aligned group. I recommend having a few of the not-so-main bad guys attempt to talk to the group; I had the cleric that worships the slimes (I'm at work and I am terrible with remembering names) explain to the group that they missed the Szith Morcane house and the Inverted Tower. He explained that he wanted those in power removed and would stay out of the party's way. Then at the inverted tower I had Solom speak with the group. He explained a little about what was going on and that he wants a magocracy. Once again, he would like those in power removed so that he may create his own realm.

I like the idea that the drow are evil and will go to any length to further their own causes. They backstab eachother on a daily basis. Having two separate factions step in to pseudo-help the group has confused and scared them far more than having them face said drow in combat. Neither of these factions will actively help the group (obviously they're evil); they saved their skin by giving small pieces of information and they're allowing someone else to do their dirty work.

That's a good hint! I also hope that my party will come to some role-play. I hope that there will be a lot in-group role-playing considering the drow who wants to join the party. He probably has different aims than the rest of the party but as he is non-evil even the paladin should be able to come along with him. Maybe the elven bard will make more problems. The drow is a refugee from a Lolth-worshipping community. Maybe he has allied himself with the Cormanthor drow and is now curious about the drow raids (his background story is not completed yet).
Secondly, I think I should allow the bard to roll a lot of charisma checks. Maybe he can influence some bad guys to become at least unfriendly. How do you handle this?

 

[Redleg06]

Make sure you stock it with lots of GOOD Drow! (Narf!)

 

[Nathan]

Make sure you stock it with lots of GOOD Drow! (Narf!)

I think this is stuff for another adventure about what the Eilistraeeans do with Lolth's silence but maybe an adventure for a band of EVIL drow.

 

[Telor]

Spoilers, again!!

-----------------------

Your party won't have any extraneous problems with the module. It was written so that no classes were absolutely necessary.

-----------------------

I highly recommend adding levels over adding NPCs. It just the nature of the game, the higher level you are the more stuff you have that you can do. I like having fewer NPCs that have many options instead of many NPCs that have fewer options.

Another way to increase the difficulty is to plan out some combat in advance. In my opinion you can fairly do this because the drow have homecourt advantage. One area that planning worked well for me was the Inverted Tower: Notice how the Arcane Guards have spiked chains (10ft reach) and true strike... when I upgraded them they gained the Improved Disarm feat (realize that with 10ft reach improved disarm isn't 100% necessary). They began combat with true strike and disarmed all of the group's heavy-hitters the following round. With truestrike cast each guard had 1d20+37 for their disarm checks.

-----------------------

The module uses one example of changing someone's attitude toward the group.

The stone giants are neutral and under most circumstances they are indifferent.
A diplomacy check DC 15 will make the giants friendly.
A diplomacy check DC 30 will make the giants helpful.

These are the average DCs for diplomacy and I recommend you stick to the same setup to maintain consistancy. Having 0 ranks in a Cha skill makes it a CHA check anyway. Meaning whatever the opposing groups attitude starts at, DC 15 raises one level better and 30 raises two levels better. Limiting it to two levels of attitude keeps things believable. Furthermore I suggest that if the bard botches his check (and/or roleplays badly) that the attitude can shift negatively as well.

If you go this route (and I think you'll enjoy it) make sure you assign XP like you normally would.

I have found that playing some of the factions as such have created more homework for myself but so what? The hard part has already been done for me.

-Telor

 

[Nathan]

Spoilers, again!!

-----------------------

Your party won't have any extraneous problems with the module. It was written so that no classes were absolutely necessary.

-----------------------

Fine. I asked because I remember that I read a post somewhere that for examples rogues will have a hard time during the adventure due to all the undeads.

I highly recommend adding levels over adding NPCs. It just the nature of the game, the higher level you are the more stuff you have that you can do. I like having fewer NPCs that have many options instead of many NPCs that have fewer options.

I can see only one problem here: in contrast to your party my party doesn't consist of higher level characters. And if I level up the NPCs, they 1) should get better possessions and 2) may get spells or the like for which there is no chance for the players to counter. The problem with 1) is that after having defeated that particular NPC the PCs will get magic items maybe not suitable for their level.

Another way to increase the difficulty is to plan out some combat in advance. In my opinion you can fairly do this because the drow have homecourt advantage. One area that planning worked well for me was the Inverted Tower: Notice how the Arcane Guards have spiked chains (10ft reach) and true strike... when I upgraded them they gained the Improved Disarm feat (realize that with 10ft reach improved disarm isn't 100% necessary). They began combat with true strike and disarmed all of the group's heavy-hitters the following round. With truestrike cast each guard had 1d20+37 for their disarm checks.

Great idea. Maybe I will ask you once or twice in the future how you upgraded some NPCs.

Do you also give more XPs (ad hoc adjustments) for carefully planned encounters? With a group with 6 or 7 player I think there must be a XP adjustment, otherwise there will be too less XPs for each player, won't there?

-----------------------

The module uses one example of changing someone's attitude toward the group.

The stone giants are neutral and under most circumstances they are indifferent.
A diplomacy check DC 15 will make the giants friendly.
A diplomacy check DC 30 will make the giants helpful.

These are the average DCs for diplomacy and I recommend you stick to the same setup to maintain consistancy. Having 0 ranks in a Cha skill makes it a CHA check anyway. Meaning whatever the opposing groups attitude starts at, DC 15 raises one level better and 30 raises two levels better. Limiting it to two levels of attitude keeps things believable. Furthermore I suggest that if the bard botches his check (and/or roleplays badly) that the attitude can shift negatively as well.

I think one can also use the table on page 149 of the DMG, "influencing NPC attitude" which is compatible to your stone giant example.

If you go this route (and I think you'll enjoy it) make sure you assign XP like you normally would.

Of course! As a peaceful person I think overcoming a conflict non-violently is the preferable way...

 

[Celtavian]

Re

In your case, where all the players are 10th level, I would just increase the number of enemies at certain points in the module. As you already stated, increasing enemy levels would mean almost certain death for a party of 10th level characters because of spells or items that allow no save or higher DC saves than they would normally face.

Just throw some extra NPC's in here and there. The module is already very tough. I can't imagine 4 PC's making it through that module. They would be destroyed by some of those encounters.

 

[Telor]

My group started out with 3 players and me as DM. So to round out the 4 party group I rolled up a sorcerer that would stick with the party. Now we have 5 players and my character is still in the mix (for many reasons: no one has any arcane capabilities, we occasionally switch DM'ing, etc.).

I have found that with 6 people the risk of death is significantly lower. The challenges are still enjoyable and difficult but there is safety in numbers.

I find that the current xp system is rather fast (In 1 year of consistant play we are level 14-16). The fact that the xp is divided 6 ways instead of 4 and the fact that I have to throw higher CRs at the group to challenge them balance eachother out.

The only thing I do as a ad-hoc adjustment is lower the amount of experience given when things go easy for them. For me there is a different between easy and efficient. Easy means I didn't challenge them, efficient means they figured something out.

As Caltavian stated, the module gets extremely tough almost to the degree of hopeless. I recommend plotting areas where new PCs can enter the group to replace destroyed PCs. Since drow rarely take hostages it is quite difficult to find a realistic situation.

-Telor

 

[Swack-Iron]

Fine. I asked because I remember that I read a post somewhere that for examples rogues will have a hard time during the adventure due to all the undeads.

Gadz, without a rogue the party will get blown to smithereens by the very high DC traps sprinkled throughout the adventure.