Civility

[JamesonCourage]

So, when the New Horizons forum opened up, things were pretty civil the first couple of days. I mean, there were a few posts here and there that I considered a little over the line, but overall it was nice and friendly. People talking about what they wanted in the new edition, what they didn't like about old editions, and what they did like about old editions (like the list threads). To be honest, I was very impressed.

I'm not anymore.

I know that I have no power to enforce civility, but I find that more and more threads are bogged down with accusations and condescension. People saying "you're just not willing to budge" or "that doesn't make for a fun game" or "if you think that, you must've never read the rules" or even "go work out your opinions with everyone else who is similar but not exactly the same, and then come back and tell us what you think."

Enough, please. We can talk about things like the other gal or guy is a real person. Just be civil. You don't need to agree. I think voicing disagreement is helpful, in fact. But, can't we at least stay away from accusations, condescension, and badwrongfun? This site is my favorite RPG site for a reason, and civility has been a large part of it. Let's keep these discussions civil, please. Thank you. As always, play what you like

 

[Alzrius]

Agreed. Keep it civil, douchebags.

 

[Dausuul]

I agree with the sentiments, but they're not likely to get much traction for a while. 5E has been announced, and this means war.

 

[JamesonCourage]

I hope it gets better. I've purposefully skipped replying in some threads because I know there's no way my disagreement will be productive considering the style and tone of the replies in those threads. I can only plead with people to post productively.

 

[frankthedm]

There is a

button right there if a poster steps over the line. Don't be afraid to use it.

 

[hanez]

I dont mean to be uncivil.... but....

I think that this is the fault of the designers of 4e. Honestly.

It is going to be very hard to unite people with sooo different expectations. There are soooo many differences and you know honestly, I sympathise with people who love 4e and expect some of what they love to be carried into the new edition. But for some people (like me), the game had gotten to the point that it was no longer recognizable and maybe its just trademark law that is the problem? Cause in the end I am ended up arguing that there are archetypes in D&D, or that mages should act like D&D mages always have, or welll.... I don't think I am being unreasonable. In fact I know I am, I am just saying what I need to care about D&D again. WOTC decidided to make this announcement, not me. I was fine playing a different game (and callind it D&D), and forgetting about WOTC. But they said they are trying for Unity, and I'm just here speakining the truth the way I see it.

So, if your scratching your head, wondering why Save or Die, or Vancian, or Magic ItemsL, or the fact that Paizo was sooo damn incredible with my Dungeon subscrtion and issues like that are so contentious, I think its only reasonable to blame designers who kicked sooo much sand in previous players faces. They made two groups of players, and that was there choice. . And its goin be a real challenge to join them back together, and people are just stating the rules that they see as a prerequisite for "unity".

I honestly wish them luck.


PS, theres a difference between civility (aka your a *****) and "your just not willing to budge". Some things, I am not willing to budge on, and I hope the designers know that. I convinced 12 players to jump to 4e, we sooooold our stuff. We burnt more then a year on what they told us was D&D, we tried and they were wrong so there are some elements that we are not willing to budge on. I think that's reasonable.

Other then "not willing to budge" I hope we all keep civil

 

[Raith5]

Agree 100% on the civility front, but I dont think it is ever reasonable to blame a lack of civility on someone else.

That said we need to be honest about our views and learn from each others perspectives. I think 4th has been the high point of D and D as a game, but I have learnt a lot this past week from views very different from my own.

And as JamesonCourage said you can always play want you want.

 

[Iosue]

I dont mean to be uncivil.... but....

I think that this is the fault of the designers of 4e. Honestly.

Good sir, with respect I must disagree. No matter the mistakes designers may have made in the past, it simply has no connection with the civility of posters on a 3rd party site such this, excellent EN World. We posters are responsible for our own behavior. The current designers may call 4e "rubbish and trash of the worst sort, played only by moral reprobates and sexual degenerates", and while as a humble player I may strongly disagree, it does not follow that I am then given carte blanche to be uncivil on Master Morrissey's fine fora.

For myself, I expect the designers of 5e to say nothing but negative things about 4e for the next three to four years. At worst, they will do so for purposes of marketing, to differentiate the new edition from the current, and to appeal to the untapped markets. At best, they will do so in good faith as they explain what changes they are making -- it will follow naturally that in the course of improving on 4e they must lay bare its faults. (Of which there are a few, I say as an ardent admirer and player of the game.) I have thus resolved that no matter what they may say of the game, I will, primarily, not read into statements about the game implications about its players, and, secondarily, I will not take criticism of my preferred edition personally.

In some of my opinions, I am as constant as the North Star, and I have found that at times these opinions find themselves in opposition to those of good master JamesonCourage. In our (too few) interactions, I have failed to move him from his positions, and I must confess he has been no more successful in displacing me from mine. And yet, I feel our exchanges to have been ultimately profitable, and it has been my pleasure to receive Experience Points from the good man, even in the midst of disagreement. I humbly suggest we all follow his fine example, and that even in the heat of spirited debate, we give Experience Points not only to those with whom we agree, but also the well-written and civil arguments of the opposition.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Yeah, I've gotten two more attendees on my ignore list and it is really chopping up the threads because both of the write A LOT (tm)

Seriously, everyone, this is a game and it is not even pre-release yet. The BETA is still firmly behind closed doors. No need to get this excited. You are not a squeaky wheel and WOTC is not gonna grease you.

 

[Rechan]

I just don't come into this forum anymore.

Granted, part of the reason is that I think all of these discussions are moot; the things we're arguing over have more than likely already been decided. So it's wheel spinning and wishful thinking with an argumentative edge.

But the tenor (especially the "throw out anything 4e related" attitude) just drove me out. The only reason I'm responding to this thread is because I saw it listed as the most recent thread on the forums main page, and peeked in.